How to Stand Out in Auditions with Ryan Duncan, Actor

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Well, welcome, everyone, to the actor Zilla podcast I am so excited to have on Ryan Duncan. He is an amazing actor. Yes. Hello, Ryan. How's it going? [00:00:12] Speaker B: Good. [00:00:13] Speaker C: How are you? [00:00:14] Speaker A: I'm just gonna read your. You have an. You have a great bio that I'm gonna just read. It's. Ryan is a professional union actor and writer working and living in New York City. He's worked in. In theater, on Broadway, off Broadway, and off off Broadway. He's been seen in film and tv, as well as commercials and voiceovers. He's directed and produced in the DC area in New York City and has co written and created various comedy projects, a few short plays, and a full length holiday musical. And that's just scratching the surface, I'm sure. [00:00:51] Speaker D: What. [00:00:52] Speaker B: It's all surface. [00:00:53] Speaker A: It's all surface. [00:00:54] Speaker D: Right? How's it going, man? How you been? [00:00:58] Speaker B: Good. Have I been. I've been well, you know, it's. The last few years are like this, you know, like up and down, lots of ebbing and flowing in peaks and valleys, and so, yeah, I imagine I'm not alone in that. [00:01:16] Speaker A: What have been some of the peaks. [00:01:17] Speaker D: And some of the valleys for you? [00:01:20] Speaker C: Gosh. [00:01:21] Speaker B: And, you know, it's interesting. It's funny because everything, I think, relates now to the pandemic, right. [00:01:30] Speaker C: At least in recent years. [00:01:33] Speaker B: So I was getting to be pretty. [00:01:36] Speaker C: Busy all the way through 2019 and then 2020. [00:01:43] Speaker B: There's a show I'd been working on called Distant Thunder for years. I'd been on the ground level of it. My friend Sean Taylor Corbett wrote the first kind of contemporary native american musical based on this father's tribal ancestry. And he went to the res in Montana and wrote this thing. [00:01:58] Speaker C: And we were like, after all these. [00:02:00] Speaker B: Workshops and everything, we were. We were premiering at the Lyric Theater of Oklahoma. And so that was. It was a high point. We were like, here we are. [00:02:07] Speaker C: And then, like, two and a half. [00:02:10] Speaker B: Weeks in, this was, you know, February. [00:02:12] Speaker C: Into March, we were cut off. [00:02:15] Speaker B: So I went to Florida for several months. And you know what's funny? [00:02:21] Speaker C: I mean, I knew people that passed. [00:02:23] Speaker B: Away from COVID I know people that died of other things during that time. There was a lot of loss, and there was a lot of fear and angst, but it was a strange time because it put everyone on an even playing field. So there was a moment where I think we all exhaled and were like, how hard have we been hustling? What have we been doing? [00:02:44] Speaker C: What do we want to do? [00:02:45] Speaker B: What do we not want to do? You know? So it was an awful time, but somehow, like, there were good things in it. There were lots of things learned, lots of conversations had. And so, coming out of that, I got super busy again. But I think some of the peaks aren't just professional. They're, like, personal. They're, like, what we're learning about ourselves as we get older and we figure out who we are and what we want to do. And so the projects are certainly good. [00:03:14] Speaker C: But I think some of the realizing. [00:03:18] Speaker B: Who'S our chosen family and figuring out more about who we are and what our purpose is is really important. [00:03:28] Speaker A: That's beautiful. Yeah, that was a beautiful answer. Couldn't have said it better myself. I'm curious about the projects you were involved in, but I love the. The personal aspect of that, because when else in history, at least, that we've been alive, like, that, that the whole world was kind of on pause, you. [00:03:50] Speaker D: Know, at the same time. [00:03:53] Speaker C: And. And it was a weird pause because we. [00:03:58] Speaker B: Our mortality was right here. Right. We thought, I think, like, oh, my gosh. There's something that if you catch it, you die. It felt a little like all those zombie apocalypse films, like the Walking Dead. I always loved that show. [00:04:10] Speaker C: I'm probably one of the only people that finished it. [00:04:13] Speaker B: I watched all of it. I finished it. [00:04:16] Speaker A: We found the one viewer that finished the. [00:04:19] Speaker B: But I was like, who knew? It was an instructional video, right? Like, I would watch that show and go, come on. What a miracle it is that people are surviving this. Why would we kill each other? Why is there such desperation? [00:04:35] Speaker C: There's fewer people. [00:04:36] Speaker B: There's less competition. But then the pandemic hit, and we watched people. You get very political and all this stuff. And I was like, oh, yeah, no. People would absolutely rent each other's houses. [00:04:45] Speaker A: And they went to Costco and got all the toilet paper for themselves for years. [00:04:49] Speaker B: Took everything. [00:04:52] Speaker C: In Oklahoma where there was. [00:04:54] Speaker B: Stuff in a store. And then the next day, we went shopping. Cause we weren't sure if we'd be stuck in Oklahoma City or not. And there was someone. They were pulling carts from people who. [00:05:03] Speaker C: Had, like, 17 dozen eggs. [00:05:06] Speaker B: Like, you can only get three. And there was no more toilet paper, all that stuff. And then I go to Florida, where people thought it was funny. It was happening, and these kids are getting arrested for licking produce and licking ice cream and putting it back, and I'm like, what's going on? So the last thing I cared about was, like, a show. All of a sudden, I was like. [00:05:23] Speaker C: Are we gonna survive this? [00:05:25] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:05:26] Speaker A: I think one of my posts, my. [00:05:27] Speaker D: First posts when it blew up was. [00:05:30] Speaker A: A lady sneezed near me in the grocery store. It's been nice knowing you all. [00:05:36] Speaker C: That's how it fell. [00:05:38] Speaker A: That's how it felt. Yeah. [00:05:40] Speaker B: And I, prior to going to Oklahoma to work on the show, I had a neighbor downstairs who is a virologist. [00:05:47] Speaker C: Who, he studies viruses. [00:05:51] Speaker B: And he had moved back to France already because he had gotten his green card. And two weeks later was like, I've got to move. I think I don't have much of a future in this country the way things are going. And he went back to France and he was on the front lines of working on COVID and wrote him or called him on WhatsApp. And I was like, hey, can you. [00:06:11] Speaker C: I've seen this thing on tv. [00:06:12] Speaker B: Can you tell me more about it? I'm supposed to go do a show. [00:06:16] Speaker C: I'm an actor. [00:06:16] Speaker B: I'm gonna go do a show in Oklahoma. Should I do any. Should I do it? Should I, what should I do? And he's like, here's what's going to happen. And at the time, he laid out. [00:06:24] Speaker C: Exactly what, what, what we knew to. [00:06:28] Speaker B: Happen at the time. And then months, for months, things were. [00:06:31] Speaker C: Coming out on the news that were, that were revelations. [00:06:35] Speaker B: And I was like, but I knew this. He told me this in February. And so also, another aspect of it was like, as an actor, you're like, how is this going to affect me in the future? If I get it and survive it? What is it going to do to my body and my voice? [00:06:53] Speaker A: I don't know if you know anyone. I have some friends that do have long COVID. Like, they still, they still deal with it, which is crazy. [00:07:00] Speaker D: I mean, I hope that they figure. [00:07:02] Speaker A: It out what it is and how to fix it. [00:07:04] Speaker B: It's hard because a friend of mine, her pulmonologist, told her recently, if you've. [00:07:09] Speaker C: Ever gotten COVID, doesn't matter to what. [00:07:12] Speaker B: Extent, mild or severe, your body has changed. And I don't know if it's because. [00:07:17] Speaker C: Of getting a little older, but in. [00:07:20] Speaker B: The last year, like, I got COVID twice, it was super mild. And I was Mister COVID compliance officer, masking all the time vaccine. And it was very mild. [00:07:29] Speaker C: And I feel like my body is different. I feel like I'm more sensitive to things. [00:07:37] Speaker B: I've always been in tune with my. [00:07:38] Speaker C: Body, but now it's almost like my. [00:07:41] Speaker B: Sinuses, I feel different. My teeth, my something is different. And I would just wonder, is that the effect of COVID I don't know. [00:07:51] Speaker A: Yeah, it might be. [00:07:55] Speaker D: Kind of to. [00:07:57] Speaker A: Transition a little bit into the industry talk. I mean, you know, obviously things went. [00:08:01] Speaker D: To self tapes a lot. [00:08:05] Speaker A: You know, the real world. Every other industry was going on. Zoom and remote work became big. [00:08:12] Speaker D: And I think there's a ton of benefits to that. [00:08:15] Speaker A: Like this, everyone's used to being on a call, you know, and you can work with people around the world more easily. Like, everyone got used to it, kind of. But I'm kind of curious about your thoughts on, you know, the self tapes in this. [00:08:31] Speaker D: In. [00:08:31] Speaker A: In the acting industry have kind of replaced a lot of pre screens and stuff. And I'm not sure if you do a lot of self tapes these days, but I'm curious of what your experience is. [00:08:40] Speaker B: I do some. Okay, so what's interesting is when I was in Florida, they. They let us go, and they said, it looks like New York is blown up. It's awful. So is there anywhere safer to send you? And I said, my partner's in Fort Myers, Florida, in a bit of a rural suburb. I can go there. So I went there, and there was a show. [00:09:01] Speaker C: It's funny, the first thing I did was not a. [00:09:05] Speaker B: It was a self tape, but not for an audition because there was nothing happening. I played this character in a show on Broadway, like in act two of the show called getting the band back together, where I. [00:09:15] Speaker C: Did you see it? [00:09:17] Speaker A: I didn't get to see it, no. [00:09:19] Speaker B: It was this lounge singer kind of guy named Nick Styler. And when we did it out of town, there was no song. I played the part for, like, in this one scene, I played multiple parts. And then when we. In 2014, they wanted to present the show to try to get it onto Broadway. So they were presenting it to the theater owners, and they were all there. And they wrote this song for this random lounge singer character. I played for, like, a hot minute, and they didn't finish it. They wrote part of it. And then Mark Allen, the composer, was like. And Doug Kitzaros was orchestrating it. They were like, I don't know what to do with this. This is getting to the video. Promise. He said, I don't know what to do with this. And I said, can I take it home? And I brought it home. [00:09:58] Speaker C: I wrote the rest of it. [00:09:59] Speaker B: I finished the song, and I came in and I said, here's what I'm gonna do. You know that Muppet that smashes his face on the keyboard and says, I'll never get it right or I'll never be whatever that is. I'll never get it. Right? I'll never do it. I'll never be ready. I said, I'm going to smash my face on the keyboard. I'm going to go through this monologue. I'm going to sing this and all this stuff and just kind of follow me and pull out the music here and put it back in here. And we did it just for fun. [00:10:24] Speaker C: And the theater owners were like, who. [00:10:26] Speaker B: Are normally very stone faced, were kind of like that. That has to be in the show. And I was like, you can cut it. I actually said that to the producer, Ken Davenport. You can cut this. No one knows the character. And he's like, no, they loved it. So that character, I did it word for word on Broadway, what I wrote here on my couch and Mark Allen's music and then what I wrote, and then people were like, you should do a spin off or whatever and do your own show. And I played with the idea, and then I kind of was like, I don't know, that always sounds good, but to get people in the seats to see something more than once. So during the. During, like, it was really march, April. [00:11:02] Speaker C: I think I got to Florida mid. [00:11:05] Speaker B: March, 19, something like that. A week later, my partner has the whole setup, keyboard, everything reproduced, the look of my little set pieces from Broadway. And I did the song I wrote to the composer. I'm like, do you mind if I do a version? He goes, no, do what you want. And Ken was like, do what you want. So I did two versions of it. One, I rewrote the lyrics entirely. And so I was like, oh, I've got a lot of equipment. We can set up lighting. [00:11:31] Speaker C: And he was doing a lot of it. [00:11:32] Speaker B: And I was like, this is great. [00:11:34] Speaker C: And then we started to do self. [00:11:37] Speaker B: Tapes because there was some casting director that was like, we're bored, so send and do one of these scenes. And I got to enjoy it. And I am not the actor that's like, I love auditions. Never been that person. I think I audition well, but if I don't have to audition, I don't want to. Like, it's just a lot. It's a lot to do, a lot to pressure perform. And then I got back to the city, like September of 2020, August, September, something like that, because my commercial agency was like, we need you to come back, but you have to be here for two weeks because of COVID to make sure you don't have it in order to even be submitted. And I bought the backdrop. I had a green screen, some of the equipment I had a little bit because of. I worked for only make believe, this nonprofit in the city where we do interactive and therapeutic theater for kids in hospitals. So we were doing that. That went digital. So from Florida, I had to film what we would normally do in a hospital site or a specialized school. I had to film it. So I was kind of like, I'm getting the hang of this. This is kind of cool. [00:12:38] Speaker C: But now I'm a filmmaker ish. [00:12:42] Speaker B: So I bought all the equipment and started doing it at home, and I enjoyed it. But I'll tell you, sometimes now it's like, okay, the sun's going down. Now I have to put up a lighting box, and, okay, now I can't get the angle right, and now I have to do a full body. And. And now the backdrop is like, there's so much like, the setup is an hour and a half. [00:13:05] Speaker A: Right? [00:13:06] Speaker B: And then your copy is, like, to the right, sir. You're like, imovie keeps updating. So I used to be a whiz on imovie, and now I'm like, oh, it's cutting off my head. Oh, how do I add a wash? Oh, God. And then you're airdropping it to your laptop and then sending it to the casting or to your agents, who are sending it to casting. And. And a lot of the self tapes are over your weekend or holiday. [00:13:33] Speaker A: That's true. [00:13:34] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:13:37] Speaker A: That's so funny, because it does take so long, like, the setup and everything, and it's kind of like the one man bands, like the musician. It's like the actor version is the. [00:13:45] Speaker D: One man self tape. [00:13:48] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:13:49] Speaker B: We're busking in our own apartment. [00:13:55] Speaker A: I'm curious about your journey from, you know, what got you interested in acting and performing. And then all the way to Broadway. [00:14:10] Speaker B: It all started, you know what? [00:14:12] Speaker A: One sentence, please. I'm just kidding. [00:14:14] Speaker C: Et. [00:14:15] Speaker B: The extraterrestrial. [00:14:17] Speaker C: Perfect. [00:14:19] Speaker B: That's the earliest I remember. I lived in Berlin. I was in the military. My family was in the military. I was a military child. We were in a military family, and we had one movie theater. We lived in Berlin. And et came out, and I don't know what. I knew that a kid down the street had a birthday and his mom got a bootleg of it, and we tried to play it, and it was all fuzzy and we couldn't really see it, but I was like, what is this? What is this? I started to get obsessed, and I saw it in the theater two or three times. And I remember feeling like, while all the kids around me were like, I want an alien. I want to meet an alien? [00:14:55] Speaker C: I was like, how are they, who. [00:14:59] Speaker B: Are these kids and how are they telling a story? I couldn't put the words together, but I was like, I want to do what they're doing. I want to play with them in this movie, but I don't know how to make a movie, but I think I want to make movies. I wanted to be in film because of ET. And so we moved back to the states. We were in, like, Kansas for a year and I was listening to a lot of music. I was singing a lot in my bedroom, hiding, hiding that I could sing. I had a little Annie Oliver kind of kid voice and I hid it. And then we were going to move to the DC area and my mom goes, Ryan, your middle school has a drama club. You should audition because you wanted, you know, you love DT and you want to do the movies. I'm like, but it's not a movie. And she's like, yeah, but you have to start somewhere. [00:15:46] Speaker C: And I was like, terribly shy. [00:15:50] Speaker B: Auditioned in middle school and did the plays because theater was more accessible. I mean, I wasn't the kid who was like, take me to California. I watched those stories of people whose parents brought them out there. My family wasn't gonna be quite like. [00:16:05] Speaker C: They weren't like that. [00:16:07] Speaker B: They were supportive of me being artistic and in sports. I was doing sports as well, but we weren't going to move or take me to a movie. My mom wasn't a stage mom like that, but I got into theater and did it in high school and then in college, my degree is in foreign language, so I would apply to colleges as a singer actor or something. And then I knew I was going to switch my major anyway to international studies. But while I was in college, I started working, doing industrials films and local dinner theater circuit in the DC area and then got into the equity theaters. [00:16:39] Speaker C: And then was like, I graduated and. [00:16:41] Speaker B: I was like, I studied in Spain and everything. And I was like, I think. I think I want to pursue this. And I was doing a show and my best friend Tracy Toms was in. [00:16:52] Speaker C: The show with me and she had. [00:16:54] Speaker B: Said something about going to Juilliard, but I think I was like, I don't want you to leave, so I don't want to think about it. And then I came in one day and I was like, I was working in an elementary school during the day as an ESL teacher and then a guidance counselor and then doing the show hair at night with Tracy. And I was like, I think I'm going to move to New York. She goes, great. You'll live with me and my cousin Tara, because Tara was going to come up and go to school for social work. So we moved here many years ago. That was like, 1997. She started Juilliard, and our dreams were like, I want to do a reading. I want to do a non equity tour of Joseph because our friends were doing it. And I did go on drama trip. I was in a very. I had a very strong speech and drama program in high school, and we came up on drama trips, and we saw, like, my junior year, we saw Les Mis and Phantom. Then my senior year, we voted to see les mis again and see city of angels. And I was like. [00:17:51] Speaker C: I need to do that. [00:17:52] Speaker B: But then you don't know if you're good enough. [00:17:54] Speaker C: You're like, I don't know if I can. [00:17:57] Speaker B: Can I do that? Because I was in choir and I did shows in high school, but I did them the last two years because I didn't know if I could. If I was good enough to do them. I could hear the choir through the wall or go see the show. And I was like, I don't know if I'm good enough. And then when I. This was a big lesson, too. I got into the choir my senior year of high school, and the choir director was like, I wish I had you all four years. What were you doing? And I said, because I'd done the show the year before the shows, I said, I was just afraid. I didn't know if I was good enough. You know, I let that hold me back. So I didn't go to a pipeline school at all for any. For performance, but I went to. I would take classes up here and go to Michael Howard studios and conservatory. [00:18:37] Speaker C: And stuff to, like, train. But I was like, I don't know. [00:18:42] Speaker B: If I want to go to, like. [00:18:45] Speaker C: This is. [00:18:46] Speaker B: I don't know how to say this. I thought like, well, if you're good, you'll work. I didn't know there was a machine all around it. I didn't know how the machine worked. That school, that your training sometimes is a meal ticket for some people. It's not guaranteed. [00:18:58] Speaker C: But I was like, I remember at. [00:19:00] Speaker B: One point going, man, if I want to get on law and order, I. [00:19:03] Speaker C: Need an MFA to say three lines. [00:19:06] Speaker B: On law and order. I applied for grad school in 2004. [00:19:11] Speaker C: And because I was ready to go. [00:19:13] Speaker B: I was like, I don't know what to do. I did a non equity tour. I did that. And I did some off off Broadway and some short films and stuff. [00:19:19] Speaker C: And I was like, and I wasn't. [00:19:21] Speaker B: Booking regional stuff, but I could book off Broadway and off off Broadway, which was very strange because most people want to be in the city, but they were booking. But I just wanted, I was like, I want to work at Pittsburgh Clo. I barely had auditions for them. I didn't. It was just. But I could book an off Broadway show. It was very strange. And I applied for grad schools. I was on hold for, like, old globe UCSD. I had callbacks at NYU. Then they all let me off the hook toward the summer, and I was like, do I move to LA? What is that like? You know, I was watching Tracy and her classmates graduate and get in for film and tv, and I was, I wanted to do Broadway. I wanted. Since high school, I was like, that's my dream. I've got to do a Broadway show. Part of me was like, do Second City, but no, I need to do Broadway. And, you know, so I, um. That year, I was let off the hook. I went to the beach, to the outer banks with some friends. My parents were there as well and got a phone call to come in for, uh, for this show, altar boys. [00:20:24] Speaker C: And I was like, I know what. [00:20:27] Speaker B: This is, because two years ago, I went in for two very young casting directors and I had a great time and never heard anything. [00:20:33] Speaker C: And I was like, whatever, I'm not booking it. [00:20:36] Speaker B: I don't have a Broadway credit. Came back to the city on a Sunday. I think I went in on a Monday. I remember giving out candy to. I didn't. I danced, I sang, I improv'd in Spanish. And I booked it the next morning. [00:20:49] Speaker C: For the nymphs, the musical theater festival. [00:20:52] Speaker B: And they said, and Ken Davenport called me Tuesday morning. I was in bed, and he's like, we wish again. We wish we had you for the last two years. And I didn't say anything that I had been in before. I just was like, he goes, and, you know, we have producers in place to take it, maybe off Broadway, but we're going to start with this nymph. And that kind of put me on the map a little. A little bit. But that was, I was here seven years before I booked that show, and that felt like a Broadway show to me. [00:21:17] Speaker D: Wow. [00:21:21] Speaker A: So what was kind of going into your audition process? [00:21:27] Speaker D: Like, what is your preparation? [00:21:29] Speaker A: Like, you can do it for that audition specifically or just kind of curious because obviously you know how to audition. [00:21:36] Speaker D: And I find that it's not exactly. [00:21:40] Speaker A: The same skill as doing a show. I mean, like, it's a separate, like, it's a separate skill in its own way, you know? [00:21:47] Speaker D: So I'm curious about your perspective on that. [00:21:50] Speaker B: Yeah. Oof. So I remember when I would audition for, with monologues, I just thought this recently for some reason, like two days ago, I don't know why. Oh, I was cleaning. I cleaned the hell out of my apartment. And there's an old monologue book I have over here that Jack Poggi wrote. And Jack was actually my monologue. He gave me monologues for my, my, my grad school auditions. And I remember I'd done them in school, but I just, they felt so false and fake, and I never, I felt like I couldn't get a grasp. Now I look back and I'm like, it's age and experience because of performing. I feel like I know how to do monologues, but at the time, I remember dreading them because it just seemed like such a false. You're looking above their heads and you're performing to a wall, and sometimes you end up just performing to a wall instead of seeing what you need to see and going there. I was always scared by auditions. I think I auditioned well because the adrenaline kicked in and I got in there. My prep, I think, has always kind of been, I live with the material for at least 20 to 30 minutes a day leading up to an audition. Like, I have an audition. I have an actually an in person audition on Monday while I'm, of course, doing. I've started reading on Sunday. So of course, I have an audition at the same time. And I'll live with the material. I'll do a rough, like, the first night, probably an hour, and then I live with it for 20 or 30 minutes each day because I find new things and I figure out, here's what I want to do. I used to have a mindset in my twenties and even early thirties of, let me give them what they want. What do they want? I have to fit. A mold. I have to fit. I have to fit. I have to fit. And then I stopped doing that at some point, and I was like, I think I need to create. This is what I think the role should be. This has to come from me. I can't be someone else. And I think I tried to do that when I first moved here. I was like, I think we're also told that, you know, always appeal to what they want, but you don't know what they want. You assume you know what they want. But when you start making it about your, like, it's me. I'm going to do it the way I think it should be done and the way I think it fits in the show. And you can absolutely direct me in a different way. But I did it from an insecure place before. I think when I was younger, it. [00:24:14] Speaker C: Was like, did you feel it was scary auditioning? [00:24:19] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:24:22] Speaker A: But I kind of came to the same conclusion you did, which is, like I always say, have a reason to do it for yourself. [00:24:31] Speaker D: Some. [00:24:31] Speaker A: Maybe something you want to work on technically in this audition or something that you want to share about yourself or just, yeah, make a decision about the character or about how you're doing it that fulfills you and not tries to fulfill whatever there. And also, I've learned that sometimes they don't even know what they want. [00:24:49] Speaker B: Right. That's a big part of it, too, especially when you start going in for commercials, things like that, or commercial world is like, you could go in and give your tour de force performance, and they're like, we need a redhead. Like, it just doesn't matter. We're going female. We're going another gen. It's just. It's about sales and a boardroom deciding on what they need, how they need to sell a product, the other stuff, like theater, auditioning for theater. There were a lot of actors that that would be like, I love auditions. It's my chance to perform, and that's what I'm hearing from, like, I hear you and I heard coaches say that, like, it's your chance to act. I'm like, it is your chance. It is your chance to do something. But it wasn't fun until I said, oh, I have these sides or this song. And I'm like, oh, here's what I think it should be. I'll just go in and make them cry or laugh or whatever. It'll just be fun. Like you said, getting back to yourself. But it was too nerve wracking to go in and pretend. I loved auditioning because it was such good training, or I just wanted to. It's my opportunity because I was like, I can act in my living room. We all do. [00:25:57] Speaker C: We all, like, on our own. [00:25:59] Speaker B: But I think I. And I started to take more risks, and I found that I was being safe in front of casting because I felt like part of it felt like, don't scare them. But when you get in front of the directors and the writers be more. You can be artistic. They're looking for collaborators. Casting is going through a roster of people, and they're seeing weird crap happen in front of them, and they're also like, they didn't write create the show. They're just trying to help the creatives cast it. And so I felt like it was a different feel in front of a casting director alone. That's why I didn't really care for pre screens, because I'm like, I know you don't know me, but you want to see what I can do. [00:26:42] Speaker C: But I think this is what the. [00:26:43] Speaker B: Show is, and if you think that's what the show is, too, we're golden. But if you don't, if you're on a different page than me and the creatives, this isn't going to go well. And I think that would freak me out. But once you're in front of, like, Mary Zimmerman, I was like, I'm going to just do what I think this should be, because, like you said, she's also going, how do I want this? How do I want to shape this? [00:27:04] Speaker C: Maybe that's it. [00:27:06] Speaker D: Right. You know? Right. [00:27:10] Speaker A: So do you approach that differently now, like, with, you know, with experience? [00:27:16] Speaker D: Like, if you go in for just. [00:27:18] Speaker A: A casting director, do you approach it differently, or is it the same what you said? [00:27:23] Speaker B: I think I'll say this, too. I think what helps after a while with confidence or anything like that is, is the credits and work you've already done put you in a different mindset. I can say that before I did altar boys, there were a few auditions, people I auditioned for who were like, yeah, thanks. It went from, okay, what are you going to do? Yeah, thanks to. Thank you for making time to come in. And I remember being struck by that, like, oh. Because this other group made a decision to cast me in something that's a hit now it's up to my clout. That's what it felt like. All of a sudden, my reaction in the room was different. So I think experience and credits give you a confidence that is very hard to have when you're just starting out. So now in front of a casting director, some of them, we know each other now, or they've seen me and stuff, or we've been in circles together, so I feel a little more confident. They know me. Some of them know me enough to do, to be more creative and not worry about, and they can also direct you if they feel like, no. The director told me that it's got to be this way. [00:28:38] Speaker D: Right. [00:28:39] Speaker B: But still, a lot of the auditions, I think I go in for now, someone on the creative staff is also there, so they're working in tandem as opposed to a casting director who's like, oh, my God, I have to see 200 people I've never met and hope they're right for this project. So I'm a little more relaxed about it. Now. [00:29:00] Speaker A: What is your advice to, like, I don't know if newer, you know, early, early career actors, do you have any advice for them on if they just moved to the city and they need to get known by casting? [00:29:13] Speaker B: So I feel like I have a lot of things. There's a class that I created that I was supposed to teach in Florida right now that I'm going to do as a workshop, some of it will incorporate. It's mostly about building characters, creating characters. There's an element of it that is this subject. [00:29:27] Speaker C: And I will say that I always. [00:29:31] Speaker B: Felt that I've learned that nothing is fair, but anything is possible. [00:29:35] Speaker C: So when you're starting out in the. [00:29:37] Speaker B: City, what I did was because I. [00:29:39] Speaker C: Didn'T have family members connected in the business. [00:29:43] Speaker B: I didn't come from a school where I had a community of, like, we're all from this school, and we can lean on each other. I joined an off off Broadway or indie theater company so that we could do, we did one acts, we did lots of readings. [00:29:56] Speaker C: I took classes. [00:29:57] Speaker B: I got to, I did for me, the casting director, the one on one, and TVI things for me didn't work. [00:30:05] Speaker C: I had people say, I'm going to. [00:30:07] Speaker B: Call you or start to freelance with me, and I'd never hear from them again. And other actors were like, I booked three guest stars, or I'm signed with blah, blah, blah. I had such a, I feel tumultuous time fielding that kind of getting in front of casting. There are casting directors I'd been here. [00:30:25] Speaker C: 15 years and had never met. There was one in particular. [00:30:27] Speaker B: I was been here 15 years and finally met this casting director who texted during my audition. So, like, I was like, oh, how do I do this? But I think now it's different because people are getting offers and getting represented off of TikTok and Instagram and stuff like that. That was not the case when I moved here. You had to go to places, and I think it's a good idea to meet casting just to get on the radar, meet somebody, meet a casting director. They have thousands of people they're trying. [00:30:57] Speaker C: To like, and so therefore, they kind of have to put you in type boxes. Right. And if you're there's intersectionality, it's hard. [00:31:06] Speaker B: And you may think one thing about yourself. You go to one audition, and they have a completely different concept of who. [00:31:11] Speaker C: You are, and you're like, that's not what I do. [00:31:14] Speaker B: Or you have that one day. It was always funny to be like, just go in anyway. Don't apologize, go in. It doesn't matter if you're sick, they still will see you and it's like. But then you leave an impression, and if you're sick and you don't do as well, their impression is, uh, that they couldn't really. You know, there's a lot to around it, but I say, get it in a group of people. I would get with groups and we would write stuff. We would do readings in our apartments. We would workshop little things. We would try to film little things in a studio. [00:31:44] Speaker C: We would try to get little off. [00:31:47] Speaker B: Of broadway plays done, like, get with people and be creative. That's my biggest advice. Start being creative. If you're a writer, write something and get. [00:31:57] Speaker D: Build your tribe. [00:31:59] Speaker B: Yeah, build a tribe. Especially if you don't have one when you come here. I felt very much like I had to forge my own way because it was also, like, your type, sexuality, my ethnicity, everything seemed to be so confusing for. And I didn't understand. [00:32:17] Speaker C: Why. [00:32:18] Speaker B: Why things were so. It was hard to keep appealing to people and keep trying to tell them who you are, right, and what you are and all that kind of stuff. And then I went to LA and they were like, oh, you have to brand yourself, like, as what? Well, is either this or this or this. And I found it so limiting because I'm like, I'm an actor. [00:32:37] Speaker C: And they, they. [00:32:39] Speaker B: It seemed like versatility was treasured, but at the same time, it was like, no, they. If you're too versatile, they don't know what to. Where to put you either. So find a tribe, start being creative. Get with. I see people get it. And they put cabarets on with their friends, right, but you have to be. There's a lot of content now. Like, there was a point, remember when it was like, everyone do a web series, do a short film, do an indie pilot, and then a bunch of us did all that and won awards for it. [00:33:12] Speaker C: And then you're like, now there's so much. [00:33:15] Speaker B: So. And be thoughtful about it. [00:33:17] Speaker C: Don't just be like, I was drunk. [00:33:20] Speaker B: And put out a song on my instagram. And you're like, no, no, no. Because people see it. People will see it and they'll form an impression. You know, I feel weird about, I don't post any self tapes. I'm not mad at people who do it. I just feel like, well, sometimes there might be a breach of, like, the, like, a material, but it's also like. [00:33:43] Speaker C: Some people are great. [00:33:44] Speaker B: I saw a friend self tape recently, and I was like, oh, my God, you should book this show. And I feel bad about myself tape, but I was like, it forms an impression, and I'm not sure. I don't think casting is time, either. They do. I met with my commercial agent yesterday, and there was a guy's brochure on her desk. I said, I love this guy. Follow him on Instagram. She goes, I did, too. I followed him on TikTok and Instagram, and during the pandemic, I reached out. [00:34:13] Speaker C: To him to represent him because he was so funny. [00:34:18] Speaker B: So things can happen. [00:34:20] Speaker C: But I think the thought that casting. [00:34:23] Speaker B: Directors can sit for hours and hours and go through online stuff is. It's tough. Some people hit it with a viral video, and some people don't. [00:34:34] Speaker A: But it's such an opportunity. But at the same time, like you. [00:34:37] Speaker D: Said, it's also an opportunity in the. [00:34:40] Speaker A: Negative sense that you want to put out good stuff and you want to make sure that you're. Yeah, like, you're putting out quality, quality content. [00:34:49] Speaker B: And some people are shaping a narrative about themselves that I don't think they mean to people. I love, too. I've seen multiple. During the pandemic, especially, there were a lot of, like, clothing optional videos happening and things. And I was like, I guess everyone's reaching out because they're so isolated to be like, I'm still here. I'm still affable. I'm still whatever, and I'm like, but you're shaping a perception of yourself that. [00:35:19] Speaker C: Someone might read, right? [00:35:21] Speaker B: Oh, I thought you were more of an actor, but it seems like you're more of a model or you only do this. That's just my opinion. We're boxed in a lot, and we can sometimes do that to ourselves if we're not careful. [00:35:37] Speaker A: Yeah, I think making sure you're comfortable with, it's just like, you know, my agents, they, they give you a list of, like, what are you comfortable with? Are you comfortable with partial nudity on stage or full nudity or whatever? It's like, I think it's important to. [00:35:54] Speaker D: Like, strategize and not just you. [00:35:57] Speaker A: Strategize on what. What image you're trying to portray in social media. And like you said, I mean, it can be very powerful. Like, you know, your. [00:36:06] Speaker D: Your friend or this person got an. [00:36:08] Speaker A: Agent, possibly, or a meeting with an agent from their work, but, yeah. [00:36:13] Speaker B: And I'll actually answer better the question you originally asked, which was, what would my advice be to someone coming in the business, coming into the. Into the city? I think there is a. There's a confidence that reads in the. [00:36:26] Speaker C: Room that almost has to be earned, and it's hard. [00:36:30] Speaker B: I've been a reader a bunch of times, and I love it because you hear so much stuff that it's mind blowing. First of all, sometimes you feel better about your auditions. You're like, oh, my God. I put so much pressure on myself, and I left going, did I say this word wrong, or should I hit this note better? And they're like, no. That person who did the reading has already booked it, or this person's cousin is coming in, or they have to go this direction. There are so many reasons why you don't get a job. But there was one audition in particular I was a reader for, and there were some really talented young people new to the city who came in terrified, apologetic, should I stand here? I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Do you want me to sing this? I'm sorry. I'm sorry. And the staff worried about them. They came across it, read amateurish to the staff. And then there were some seasoned people with several Broadway credits who came in who were lovely, but not as. Didn't hit it as not as good at some of the material as the younger people. But they had a confidence that said, you don't have to worry about me. I'm going to come in as a collaborator and an artist. But they had the credits and the experience to have that confidence. And my dad, who is not remotely in the industry or an artist, said to me once, years ago, and at first I scoffed at it. Now I'm like, no, that was, I think I do this. He said, well, look at it. I know it's the arts, and I don't know much about that, but think. [00:37:50] Speaker C: Of it as, like, they have a. [00:37:52] Speaker B: Job opening and you're the best candidate for the job. So you walk in going, I'm the best person to fill this spot. At first, I was like, this is artistic. It's not like that. [00:38:01] Speaker C: And then I realized, no, no, there's confidence behind that. [00:38:06] Speaker B: Hey, there's a. You're casting a Millie Dillmount in your regional production of Millie, and I'm the person for the job, and I'm the one you need. So I'm just going to come in. [00:38:16] Speaker C: And you need me, and I need you. [00:38:21] Speaker B: We need each other. And so that mindset helped me free myself from this. Like, what else can I do to appease them or please them and give you a confidence? There's only one you. I know we get told this a lot. There's only one you. And when you start to allow yourself to, like, come through the material, it's much better because casting directors will tell you. [00:38:43] Speaker C: I met a casting director the other. [00:38:44] Speaker B: Day who was auditioning for a one line role in Sex and the City. And he said 49 women came in and read the line the same way, and the 50th put a question mark at the end, and they were like, oh, my gosh. Revelation. [00:38:58] Speaker C: He said, everyone. [00:39:01] Speaker B: If you just assume now, some of them, that might have been their instinct, but if you bring yourself to it. [00:39:07] Speaker C: It'S within reasoning, within what the story. [00:39:11] Speaker B: Is, you're going to be unique, and that should give you the confidence to. [00:39:15] Speaker C: Be like, I may not have those. [00:39:17] Speaker B: Notes or that look or that body. [00:39:19] Speaker C: But I've got this. And so I think you might need. [00:39:22] Speaker B: This for your show. With respect, not being rude, not saying that, but just like, here's what I. [00:39:27] Speaker C: Think you could use in your show. Let's see if we can collaborate. [00:39:30] Speaker D: Yeah, I think. [00:39:33] Speaker A: I don't know about you, but I've had just a lot of luck just being bold in auditions. And the boldness is coming from, I guess, in a way. I mean, especially as I get older, it's like I don't care as much, in a way. Like, I don't care if I booked the job as much. It's like, what can I get out of this today? How can I have fun? [00:39:54] Speaker D: Or how can I, in a way. [00:39:58] Speaker A: Being selfish with the material, if that makes sense. Like, in a good way. Kind of like what you're saying. [00:40:05] Speaker B: Yes. In the last ten or 15 years, again, because of some things I've done, I feel like I'm going to be. [00:40:13] Speaker C: Bold in the room, because if I got this part, I would bring these things to it. [00:40:20] Speaker B: So you can direct me. Otherwise, you can tell me to be broader or more subtle. But just what you're saying, I love it. I have a story, you know Jaylane Marcos? Jaylane Marcos is a good friend of mine. She's been in, like, nine Broadway shows. She was in get the band back together. She does a one woman show called. [00:40:37] Speaker C: What I did for a job. [00:40:39] Speaker B: And it's all the bold, wild things she does to get work. [00:40:43] Speaker C: Now, she has a breadth of work. [00:40:46] Speaker B: Behind her where she can have the confidence to know that they're not going to be freaked out by what she does. She's not just like new to the city and freaking people out. She is. She's accessing herself, and she is funny. She's one of the funniest people I know. And one day, on the subject of being bold, she called me and said, ryan, I need your. Can you help me with an audition? This was after we had done getting the band back together. And I said, sure. [00:41:11] Speaker C: Do you want me to meet you. [00:41:13] Speaker B: Somewhere to read with you or practice? She goes, no, no, no. I need you to meet me in a studio. I have a puppet for you. [00:41:19] Speaker C: And I was like, what? [00:41:21] Speaker D: What? [00:41:21] Speaker B: She goes, no, you're in the audition with me. Just. I'll explain it when you get here. [00:41:26] Speaker C: I showed up with. [00:41:28] Speaker B: With extra things she might have needed, I brought. Because we both had these tubs of random props. I showed up. Our friend Luis Villabon showed up as well. [00:41:37] Speaker C: And she goes, she had done a. [00:41:39] Speaker B: Chorus line on Broadway. She's done a chorus line with. By Erk Lee. She knows all of those people. And she said, they're calling me in for Connie Wong, as usual, but they're also calling me in for the girl. [00:41:49] Speaker C: Losing stitch and ass for. [00:41:52] Speaker D: Oh, my God. [00:41:52] Speaker B: Is it not Judy? [00:41:54] Speaker C: Oh, my God, I'm blanking. [00:41:55] Speaker B: This is awful. Ah, I know this character. Anyway, she sings tits and ass, right? She goes, they never call me in for that part, but they want to. [00:42:04] Speaker C: See me for it. [00:42:05] Speaker B: She goes, so here's a puppet. And I had a puppet that was Connie Wong puppet, but looked and looked like Bayerkle and Louise dressed as Sheila. And she said, they've given me this scene on these sides, so I'm gonna. [00:42:17] Speaker C: Sing tits and ass. [00:42:18] Speaker B: And then during that intro, and you all are gonna come in the room and we're gonna do the lines from the scene. And we were like, what? So I dressed in, like, puppeteer, gray and black with the puppet. He's in like, partial drag. Luis. We get to the door and she goes, just listen to see what's going on first. Now there's other auditioners staring at us like, what is happening? She goes in, she does Connie Wong first. And they're like, do the TNA girl. She goes to the accompanist. [00:42:48] Speaker C: She goes, I'm keeping. [00:42:51] Speaker B: They had cut the scene from the sides. And she goes, I'm keeping the scene in, so keep vamping. [00:42:56] Speaker C: And the accompanist was like, what? [00:42:57] Speaker B: She goes, I have a Connie and. [00:42:58] Speaker C: A sheila in the hallway. And he was like, okay. [00:43:02] Speaker B: So she does the scene. You know, she gets to the part with the scene, and Louise comes in. [00:43:07] Speaker C: And is like, starts doing the lines. [00:43:10] Speaker B: Well, I would want, or whatever the lines are now I'm blanking. Like, I would just want. [00:43:14] Speaker C: You should have gotten two that looked. [00:43:16] Speaker B: Alike, or whatever, the insulting kind of sheila and I came in with it. [00:43:18] Speaker C: By her Lee puppet, and I was. [00:43:20] Speaker B: Like, I just want one of yours. And she goes, you can. [00:43:24] Speaker C: And she. [00:43:24] Speaker B: We did the whole scene, and then. [00:43:25] Speaker C: We kind of buried out. [00:43:27] Speaker B: And as I went out, I saw the entire team. [00:43:29] Speaker C: She finished the scene, and she's like. [00:43:32] Speaker B: No one does this for a chorus line because it's set. We know what we're supposed to do. No one has done something like this. We run out, we start changing, and we're. [00:43:40] Speaker C: And then the assistant casting director comes. [00:43:43] Speaker B: Out of the room and goes, that's how you audition. And then a company comes out and was like, holy crap, what just happened? [00:43:48] Speaker C: And she booked it. [00:43:50] Speaker B: She got. And then me and Luis went to see her off Broadway, and then we met the creatives, and they were like, you're the ones who came in with the puppet. She was like, I needed to do something bold and different, and they only gave me the song, and I wanted to show the attitude of the character in the scene as well. And so sometimes you can use the environment around you. I don't think you should bring in tons of crazy stuff, but, like, you use the things around you think creatively. I've rewritten stuff that ended up in. [00:44:22] Speaker A: The show for poor Yorick. You know, you can bring in someone's. [00:44:26] Speaker D: Like, someone that acts dead and it's. [00:44:29] Speaker A: Just their skull or I'm just trying to think of other ways to use, like, puppets, I guess. No, but that's amazing. [00:44:36] Speaker B: Pull out a tiny prop. Don't go overboard. But, you know, something unique that you're like, this would be funny because you also, if your mind is, I need to impress them. I know that's the easy part of your mind, but your mind could also be like, what would be funny in this show for a paying audience to see and laugh at? Because that's what they're doing the show for. [00:44:56] Speaker D: Right? [00:44:56] Speaker A: That's true. And then I also think about, like you said, when people do, when 100 people do the same thing, they're looking at you. In that, in that realm, they're seeing you, and they're also seeing a lot of other people. So how can I be different and how can I stand out and also, and do it in a way that's bold? [00:45:15] Speaker D: You know, like, like you said, that's amazing. [00:45:18] Speaker C: Exactly. [00:45:18] Speaker B: And, you know, work, we always say, work begets work. I've been on catering gigs where I met a person who helped me do mailings back in the day. I've done weird jobs where the person was a headshot photographer, and we got to become friends. But I'll say that I booked my first Broadway show because I did altar boys, and Josh Prince saw me in altar boys and liked me. And then I was called in for a reading. He was directing, and he cast me in the reading. In that reading, I met my friend Christy McIntosh, and then we were in a sketch group together, but he then called me in for Shrek because he's like, I think you'd be great for donkey. Go with me on this. And so that's how Shrek happened. It didn't happen through the reg. It was because someone on the inside called me in and made sure that they had me in for it. The second Broadway show I did, I didn't even audition for. Now, at this point in my life, there are several shows I've gone to production with I never auditioned for because the writer, the producer, someone on the staff took me with it because they're like, we like what you're doing with the role, or you've created this role. And so we collaborate. [00:46:22] Speaker C: We create this together, you know? [00:46:25] Speaker B: And so things start to lead to other things. [00:46:29] Speaker D: Is there, you know, there's. [00:46:32] Speaker A: There's a lot of stuff out there about, you got a network in the industry, and you got to do this and that. [00:46:37] Speaker D: Like, and my always, my thing is like, don't. [00:46:41] Speaker A: And I'm curious what you think is. [00:46:42] Speaker D: Like, just showing up and doing good. [00:46:44] Speaker A: Work and getting in the rooms with people. Like, do you think that's the best networking, or do you have something on top of that, like, obviously doing a performance? [00:46:55] Speaker B: I think, for me, I feel like showing up and doing good work and being kind and decent to everyone. Be kind to the people you don't think you need anything from. I don't care if it's the person bringing you coffee, the doorman, anybody. I don't care. People talk. I've been in chairs where I've heard people that I know get torn apart because they were rude or mean, and now here they are. I'm on a set of a commercial, and their name is being spoken. That has happened. I have friends who are great at networking. For me, like I said, the one on one and the tv eyes and all those casting director things, most of them didn't get me work somehow, for me, sometimes the conversation you have in the room that has nothing to do with acting. Or you're at an event and you meet somebody who's in the industry, and you talk about. For me, it could be talking about my dog ghosts, international issues, family stuff. [00:47:57] Speaker C: It gives. [00:47:58] Speaker B: There's a connection there, because I think industry people are used to someone pitching, giving them an elevator pitch all the time, and I think we've all been guilty of that. I am amazed by people who send the postcards and get called, like, they'll. [00:48:14] Speaker C: Go to, what was that one in. [00:48:16] Speaker B: The film center building? [00:48:17] Speaker C: That wasn't one on one. [00:48:18] Speaker B: It wasn't tv. It was actors connection. [00:48:20] Speaker A: Actors connection. [00:48:20] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:48:21] Speaker B: They're like, I've been in for three. [00:48:23] Speaker C: Pilots, and I'm like, that person liked me. I don't, you know, it just seems. [00:48:28] Speaker B: To be a different. We're operating on different levels, and some people fit a type. That's, I think, what we don't understand, you're like, why am I not getting seen? Well, this person. This person fits a lot of the. [00:48:38] Speaker C: Things they're casting fits six of their projects. [00:48:41] Speaker B: You're too unique. You've got to find the thing that's yours. I've realized that some of my projects. [00:48:47] Speaker C: I have a longer time between them. It took me a while. [00:48:52] Speaker B: My partner and I talked about it. [00:48:53] Speaker C: He booked, like, regional theater all the time. [00:48:56] Speaker B: And I was like, I couldn't. I barely got any callback for one place, but I could book off Broadway and Broadway. He's like, but that's what I wanted to do. And I was like, I know, but it was hard, I think, to plug me into a show because the template was like, whoever did the original production, and they want to plug you in so you can do it regionally, so that an audience around, the audience around the country know what to expect. And I maybe felt like maybe I'm a little different. I'm a little off type, but I can create a role. And so I'm grateful that by default, the time I spent upset that I couldn't be in the 4,000,000th production of Evita somewhere. I'm like, no, I'm okay. I want to originate a role in this other show. [00:49:36] Speaker C: I want to create something from the ground up. [00:49:37] Speaker B: That's where I think I'm best utilized. And I keep saying this mantra, the light in me sees the light in you. The light in me seeks the light in you. And that means there's someone out there. [00:49:48] Speaker C: With a project, or, I have a. [00:49:50] Speaker B: Project, and we need to work together. Let's find each other through the ether. [00:49:54] Speaker C: Kind of like X Men. [00:49:55] Speaker B: When Patrick Stewart puts on that helmet, not everyone sees you. Not everyone gets you, but someone out there is on your wavelength. And a simple conversation in a bar. [00:50:07] Speaker C: Or, or running into someone randomly can forge a relationship. [00:50:15] Speaker D: Right. [00:50:16] Speaker A: I love that way of thinking because. [00:50:18] Speaker D: It'S, when it's true, it's like, you. [00:50:20] Speaker A: Know, back to back auditions are kind of interesting because in one room you can be, you can have a great time and the energy's flowing and you guys are getting along, and then the next is, like, completely different. [00:50:30] Speaker D: I mean, it's, you know, it's a. [00:50:34] Speaker A: Subjective industry at the end of the day. Like, it's, you know, it's about who, who gets you and who you get. I'm kind of curious about. [00:50:43] Speaker C: Sorry, sorry, go ahead. [00:50:45] Speaker D: Oh, no, no. I was going to ask about. [00:50:49] Speaker A: Because another thing that you kind of touched on a little bit was a little bit of professional jealousy with, like, maybe your partner could book regional and you wanted to book regional gigs, but you were booking off Broadway and, you know what I mean? There's a whole, and I've met people that have amazing careers on Broadway and. [00:51:07] Speaker D: Tv, film, and they're at an amazing. [00:51:10] Speaker A: Level, and they're like, and then they talk about someone that they, oh, man, I wish I had their career. I'm like, what? You have an amazing career. [00:51:18] Speaker B: You know, wherever you go, there you are. I mean, I learned something amazing from. I'll say this, it's adjacent to what we're talking about. I've known Anthony Rapp for a long time. I love Anthony. I went to see his one man show without you when it was in the nymph. And I remember looking around the room and seeing all these young Anthony Rapps, like, these, like, 20 somethings who were like, you know, that they all wanted to do or have been in rent already and played his part. And I was like, how many of them here want his career? And I thought this before the show, and then the show started. And what I didn't know about him was that he lost his mom to cancer right after opening, soon after opening rent on Broadway, and that the preview period and even his opening night, she had to sit in a certain place so that she could be taken out in case something happened. And I remember being like. [00:52:07] Speaker C: Who would. [00:52:08] Speaker B: Switch places with him now? You don't know what anyone's life is like. And I have friends in Hollywood who are like, I think of them as wildly successful, and they're kind of like, I'm seen as one thing. I'm only going in for this best friend, or they only see I'm getting tv gigs or movie gigs, but I'm only seen as the wife with no lines or very few lines supporting the leading guy. Or I'm the best friend who doesn't get to do. You know, you're always trying to get something else. There are people on Broadway who've done a bunch of Broadway shows who were. [00:52:40] Speaker C: Like, I'm in Broadway shows, but I'm constantly understudying. And then I've. [00:52:47] Speaker B: Or I've originated a role in the workshop and the reading, and then that person, a Tony nominee, gets that part now, or some other. Some other person that they need to have, or a tv star. So again, wherever you go, there you are. And I feel like we leave auditions all the time, going, like, second guessing ourselves. And when I was a reader for west side Story with Arthur Lawrence, the one before this last one, there were people. There was a guy who came into audition. [00:53:13] Speaker C: He was in his twenties. [00:53:16] Speaker B: He sang his face off. He had a gorgeous voice, good actor. [00:53:21] Speaker C: Didn't get a call back because at. [00:53:23] Speaker B: The time, he was too old, because he was, like, 24, because Arthur Lawrence had seen spring awakening. And Arthur kind of was like, that's the energy. I want this teen angst sex thing, you know? But he wrote such a sophisticated show, it's hard for 18 1914 year olds to do it. So this guy was phenomenal and left and didn't get a callback. And Arthur Lawrence turned and said, best voice I've heard the whole week. [00:53:52] Speaker C: Best voice of the day. [00:53:53] Speaker B: This was toward the end of the day. And I remember thinking, I wish you'd said that in front of that guy, because he's gonna leave, not get a phone call for an audition, a callback, and wonder what he did wrong and should I get a coaching again? And I saw that dude on the street on 9th Avenue. I was with friends. He was with friends. I said, I'm sorry, I have to stop you. I was your reader. I know. If you remember, he goes, yeah, for west side Story. I said, you need to know that Arthur Lawrence said you were the best voice of the day. [00:54:18] Speaker C: And he's like, what? [00:54:20] Speaker B: And I said. He said, I didn't get a call back. I said, yes, because even at your young age, you're too old right now. He said, well, the casting director called me in for something else. He said, great, because Arthur Lawrence loved you. Everyone in that room loved you. And I'm an actor, and I know what it's like to leave the room and think, what happened? You could have done nothing else. And I did that to two or three people. I was like, you have to know how good you were. You're not going to be told this. You might ask for feedback from your agent, who calls them. And then they're like, but I was. [00:54:52] Speaker C: Like, if we knew the light that. [00:54:56] Speaker B: Was surrounding us sometimes and we thought we had no light, we would have light all the time. We would be confident all the time if we knew, hey, I've got something special. But I didn't know because I left or they were looking down, or you performed. You can coach somebody in an audition and say, but for this person, you might sing to the top of their head. Why not watch your acting at all? We've all been there, you know, that's amazing. [00:55:25] Speaker D: I'm so. [00:55:25] Speaker A: Wow, that's so cool you did that. I wish we heard more of that. I wish people would be. Would say that in the room or. [00:55:33] Speaker D: You know, because we need to hear that, you know, and there's a girl. [00:55:38] Speaker B: I'm waiting to find who. I went to a showcase with an old agent assistant who's no longer with my agency, and there were two musical theater programs and two play straight theater programs. [00:55:50] Speaker C: And what a lot of programs have. [00:55:52] Speaker B: To do is pair up with bigger programs like Juilliard, Yale, NYU, in order to get the people to see them. Because there's an assumption about what kind of an actor or performer you are based on the school you went to. But the school is a casting like anything else. Like, when you're up for a grad school, you're one. You're up for the one slot, sometimes in eight, right? But there's perception around it. And there was a girl who performed from my memory. She performed in three scenes because someone got sick and she had to perform a third scene. And she was brilliant. Like, everyone in that room was like, who is this chick? Oh, my God. She's amazing. She is amazing. She's hilarious. She's making us cry. And that was the feeling from the room. And at the end, I was milling about, just kind of staying out of the way of casting an agents and all these people. And I was pulled over and said, as an actor, what do you think? And I said, that girl, the dark haired girl, she's like the next Megan Mullally. She's incredible, blah, blah, blah. And she can also do drama. She's all the. [00:56:51] Speaker C: And I said, so what? [00:56:53] Speaker B: And they all went, oh, my. And then they all talked about how great. She was. And I said, so what happens now? Do you all fight over her? And I remember the small group kind of got cold and dissipated a little. And then they were picking out the musical theater people that they were going to call in, not anyone from the play programs. And I remember, and this is my memory and this is just a small group of them. [00:57:15] Speaker C: And I was like, later I said. [00:57:16] Speaker B: To him, what happened? This girl? He goes, well, I think we all don't know what to do with her. And I said, she just showed you. [00:57:24] Speaker C: This was her showcase, and she did. [00:57:26] Speaker B: Three scenes because someone else got sick, I believe. I'm waiting to find this girl to be like, you were the star of the day. [00:57:31] Speaker C: And I hope she didn't quit. [00:57:34] Speaker B: I hope she's an actress. Maybe she's on tv and I don't know where she is because there's so much on tv. But I was like, she probably, she didn't get any phone calls. Probably because she went to the wrong school or didn't do music. I don't know. But I remember being crestfallen for her. And I was like, I've got to find this girl. And I know I'll see her. I'll run into her. This was years ago. I'll find her somewhere and be like, you have to know how wonderful you are. And there were circumstances that were so stupid, and it just hurt my heart for her because I was like, she was great. [00:58:03] Speaker A: She's a star in a way. [00:58:05] Speaker D: I mean, it's, what do we do? [00:58:08] Speaker A: I mean, how do we deal with this rejection? Like, when it's like when you, and you put your, what? [00:58:15] Speaker B: Edibles videos. [00:58:17] Speaker D: That's true. [00:58:18] Speaker A: That's true. But when you're done with those. No, when you're super high, what do you do then? [00:58:24] Speaker C: Right? [00:58:27] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:58:28] Speaker A: It's, this industry is, it's so tough. [00:58:31] Speaker D: It's so rough, you know, it's, we still. [00:58:35] Speaker B: I'll run into people, I'll run into an actor who's. And I'm like, oh, my God, you got an x, y or z nomination. Oh, my God. And they're like, thanks. [00:58:47] Speaker C: I just had. [00:58:47] Speaker B: But I haven't worked in six months or I didn't get called for or they have a personal issue. And then all that doesn't matter when someone's sick that you love or you're diagnosed with something. And that's another thing. Like, some of us have sacrificed weddings and time with friends and family, hoping, waiting for an audition or sitting around or staying in town, and it's cost us. And, I mean, surely the way to get an audition is to leave town. Like, to get a ticket you can't refund. I tried to trick the universe once. I bought a bus ticket to DC, thinking, like, I'm gonna get an audition and visit my family anyway. And the universe was like, that was easy. No. 29 hours bus ticket on the china bus. You're not getting an audition. [00:59:29] Speaker A: You're not getting any. I remember one of my acting teachers in school was like, he's like, oh, you know the industry, right? [00:59:38] Speaker D: Like, the day you book a broad. [00:59:39] Speaker A: The day you open a Broadway show, like, yeah, your mom's going to pass away and you're going to be evicted. And, like, I mean, like, life will. [00:59:48] Speaker D: Happen regardless, and you can't plan on it. Like, I don't know. [00:59:53] Speaker A: What is your. Because a lot of people do make huge sacrifices for this industry. You know, like, flying. I have a friend that flies from LA all the time to audition. And to me, that's a. I mean, that's. That's not a small, you know, trip. [01:00:05] Speaker D: That's. I don't know. I just. [01:00:08] Speaker A: People make all kinds of sacrifices. [01:00:10] Speaker B: Couldn't make their rent or their payments because they had, on their own dime, flown somewhere. I mean, now you can hopefully do some stuff over Zoom, but I know film and tv, from what I hear, a lot of it's not going to come back in person unless it's really an important chemistry read or a. Or a callback, but it's going to be a lot on camera, and so that will be helpful for people who don't need to fly, you know? But, yeah, a lot of sacrifices have been made. People who missed births and deaths and stuff. I left a show. I left titanique, because I was supposed to do this show, joy, as well, but I wanted to see my grandmother. I was like, I don't know why I need to see her. I would hate to be like, I'm just sticking with this extension another few weeks, and then she passes. And she died in December when I couldn't see her, but I saw her in October. So we have to live our lives, but you have to also know it's going to be there. There's always going to be a show. There's always going to be something going on. [01:01:12] Speaker C: But. But recently, I'll say this, I don't. [01:01:15] Speaker B: Want to sound doom and gloom, but. [01:01:16] Speaker C: Part of me is like, look, there's another pandemic coming in the next few years. [01:01:20] Speaker B: It'll be a respiratory virus. It'll be a superflu. True story from the virologist. At that point, we're going to be like, I hope I survive and my people I love survive. [01:01:30] Speaker C: And we're. [01:01:30] Speaker B: Well, you know, we're watching climate change. [01:01:33] Speaker C: We'Re watching a lot of world events. [01:01:36] Speaker B: Happen that are awful. There's a point where it's going to be a little more survival mode. Not apocalyptic, but a little more like, I don't know if this is an important. I want to book a Broadway show, but I don't want my apartment building to be waterfront. I want our electricity to work. The storms are getting. There are a lot of things that put it in perspective, but we're creative. [01:01:59] Speaker C: Types and we need to be creative. [01:02:02] Speaker B: And there are hopefully other outlets we can find. I think John Lithgow said, when you're not working, write a poem, write a. [01:02:09] Speaker C: Song, paint a painting, be creative. [01:02:12] Speaker B: We can always. We can always do that to fill our soul. [01:02:15] Speaker C: But there, yeah, there are a lot. [01:02:18] Speaker B: Of sacrifices we're making for sometimes someone. [01:02:21] Speaker C: Else'S bottom line. [01:02:24] Speaker B: When you have to. I wanted to keep enjoying this and I went through like a midlife crisis. I had a dog during that time last year, I had a birthday and I was like going through stuff and I was like, I need to keep enjoying this. What do I want to do and. [01:02:37] Speaker C: Not want to do now? [01:02:39] Speaker B: Because of COVID and stuff. There's a lot of. Everyone covers five rolls and you're thrown on in the matinee, for one and thrown on the evening and we'll throw you on. On book. And there's a lot of stuff happening that. Where economics meets health meets the arts and it's. [01:02:57] Speaker A: You think it's like people are being taken advantage of because of the situation or that it's genuine. [01:03:01] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:03:02] Speaker B: And now with AI in the picture, there's a lot of stuff to sift through. People who. It's hard to get to a place in your career where you feel like you're getting a good paycheck or a good quote or you're able to call the shots and then you realize they're like, you're too expensive now or no, your track understudies for four people. For me, that's a lot of anxiety. And there are people who love to do that. It's interesting too, because we need to be thoughtful about, like I said before, what we're putting out there and how we're representing ourselves in the room and how we're connecting with people. [01:03:40] Speaker C: And like I'm always saying to people. [01:03:43] Speaker B: You know, stay creative. [01:03:48] Speaker C: Like, part of my character building class. [01:03:50] Speaker B: Is about, like, what do you bring to the table? How can you. How can you be a collaborator? You play a person, not a people. You know, you're finding the individual in a part. You're doing all these things that are going to enrich, like, go in the room, like, and say, like, I'm going to give love. Because when you think about it, like that song from a chorus line, you know what I did for love? That's the feeling on stage. [01:04:19] Speaker C: That I think we. [01:04:22] Speaker B: That we cherish that. Like, oh, my gosh, I'm living in this world and pretending, but also I have this audience that's giving me love and I'm giving them love. And we're all in a even film, we're all in a situation together. And so I had to shift my focus to more stuff like that instead of, like, I have to do this show because I need to. I have to go in for the show to show off or I have to do this or I have to do that. But we got to pay for our lives, too. But there are so many other factors that are pulling on us, so it's not easy. [01:04:57] Speaker C: Again, finding your tribe, it's such a. [01:05:00] Speaker A: Balance because obviously you have to live. [01:05:03] Speaker D: You have to make enough to live. [01:05:05] Speaker A: But you also need that artistic spark. [01:05:07] Speaker D: Because what I try and tap into. [01:05:11] Speaker A: Is, why did I want to do this in the first place? Why am I in this for so long? And it's because of that. Because you felt. Because being on stage or being in a project, like, there's such an energy to it and there's. You feel connected to other people. And I think it probably makes us feel more alive, you know? [01:05:30] Speaker D: And it makes. [01:05:31] Speaker A: And that's why people. And that's why I go to see shows, too. It's like I want to feel more alive. [01:05:34] Speaker D: I want to experience life and feel. [01:05:38] Speaker A: The energy, no matter what kind of show it is. [01:05:40] Speaker B: That's how et made me feel. When I saw et, I was like, oh, my God, I feel like I'm lost in a fantasy world. And that's what I. How do I make other. How do I gift that to other people? When 911 happened, they were giving those $20 equity tickets. And I remember seeing a show that was not well received. It was not. It wasn't a great show on Broadway, but I was in a room with all these people having a communal experience, losing the outside world for about 2 hours. And there was a real beauty to it. It was. It was. It was invaluable and I started to see that during the pandemic. Our regional theaters around the country and around the world are. They need to. Their essential businesses. They can be shelters. They can be learning annexes. They can be places for entertainment, places where your tribe comes together. And I think that. That I hated the language surrounding, like, well, the first thing we can cut is the arts. I'm like, everyone's at home watching Netflix. Every one of you is watching streaming, and then you're crappy. Everyone cannot wait to watch live performance. We need to see. I need to see jazz. I need to see a band. I need to see. This is what feeds our soul. And our society has made us try to feed something other than our humanity, our soul. Feed your bank account. We're passive consumers. And so I'd like to see us focus again on, like, making that regional theater the essential business. Than everyone at the lyric of Oklahoma is a little street with all these restaurants who won't do well unless people are going to the theater, and then the store next door does well, the museum down the street. [01:07:21] Speaker A: I don't know what the. I mean, the economics are that the arts make more money for the country than they cost. You know, the arts, it makes sense. [01:07:31] Speaker B: To the city than anything else, including sports. And when we were bouncing back and they wanted to meet with the leaders of the city, they didn't meet with the Broadway league. They met with Madison Square Garden and all these Yankees and all this stuff. And people were like, what brings in more money to the city than anything else? [01:07:47] Speaker C: Broadway, radio, city music, all that. [01:07:50] Speaker A: And it's true throughout the world and the country, too, though. I mean, like, I've worked at Bucks County Playhouse a lot, and it's. And it's central to downtown, like, to the. To a small town, like. [01:08:01] Speaker D: And it's. [01:08:02] Speaker A: That's true for so many communities. [01:08:04] Speaker D: It's like all these other businesses are. [01:08:07] Speaker A: You know, they feed into each other. [01:08:09] Speaker D: In a positive loop. [01:08:11] Speaker A: You know what I mean? [01:08:12] Speaker D: So it's sad that the arts aren't valued as much. [01:08:15] Speaker A: And I hope not to get political, but I hope we keep our funding. [01:08:21] Speaker C: I do, too. [01:08:21] Speaker B: I also think that, personally, I think there's the patriarchy at play here, because. [01:08:26] Speaker C: I think men run a lot of. [01:08:28] Speaker B: Things, and I think for them, the arts is feminizing. [01:08:31] Speaker C: And so that's a suspicion I have. [01:08:34] Speaker B: That, like, they don't think to include the arts because what's really important is sports and finance. And I think we get pushed because it's not seen as in a way masculine enough. And men are running a lot of, making a lot of those decisions. That's a theory I have. [01:08:53] Speaker C: I think that's not to get political. [01:08:55] Speaker B: But I think that's also why some people are led to being independent or voting for a certain party because it seems to be the more masculine thing to do. It seems to be one of them is. It's about how people feel about themselves. And I think masculinity is fragile, as we're seeing very. [01:09:13] Speaker C: And I don't know, I think it. [01:09:16] Speaker B: Takes, you know, takes a village. And every show is important because there are narratives that are. We're getting to see representation and diversity. I think the pendulum is doing this. So I think people are also ticking boxes. But I think, like, let's have these conversations and let's talk about what is our. One big thing for me is, like, what is our. We want people to learn history and know that there was disparity. We do know difference between equity and equality. We want to frame all these things. But we also do a lot of shows, revivals that were written during Jim Crow and like, but we want it to be diverse. But then we don't want to whitewash history and what is our, what is our responsibility to history and to showing that. And also as an actor who wants to play the subordinate all the time, you know, who wants to leave when the sun goes down, there's a lot we have to kind of figure out. [01:10:08] Speaker C: There's a nostalgia that comes with people not being included. [01:10:16] Speaker B: And so we're trying to sift through. [01:10:18] Speaker C: Like, who are we as individuals and what are we trying to, what stories. [01:10:24] Speaker B: Are we trying to tell? [01:10:25] Speaker C: And how can we provide a mosaic of reality as opposed to, like, fearfully. [01:10:34] Speaker B: Like, we're just going to do this right now because we're trying to make up for all these years. I'm like, we can do this together. We really can. I know I'm masking a few things. [01:10:43] Speaker C: Here, but it's like, there's a lot. [01:10:47] Speaker B: That needs to be. [01:10:49] Speaker C: And as actors, we've had to fit in so many boxes that we, you. [01:10:54] Speaker B: Know, actors have fudged their height and their hair color. We're always trying to be like, what is the part? [01:11:01] Speaker C: You know? [01:11:02] Speaker B: And then we're being told, be yourself. [01:11:04] Speaker C: I'm like, if you're the part, but. [01:11:07] Speaker B: You'Re also going into act. You're going in to play a part. And sometimes they don't get who you are. I just went in. It was myself. I'm like, yeah, but you freaked them out. [01:11:17] Speaker A: You freaked them out. [01:11:18] Speaker B: So there's a balance of, like, yeah, what are we doing portraying and also letting you in on who we are. [01:11:26] Speaker D: I think it's never been more. I mean, I'm hopeful for the future. [01:11:31] Speaker A: Of the theater, even though, I mean, so many theaters are closed. [01:11:36] Speaker D: I don't. [01:11:37] Speaker A: Have you heard about North Carolina theater? But I just heard that, yeah, they filed for bankruptcy, and that's really sad. But it's not just them. I mean, it's huge. Theaters, I think, like, have been in danger of going under or, I mean, I'm sure that's a pandemic related thing. [01:11:53] Speaker D: I I worked at Walnut street theater. [01:11:56] Speaker A: A few months ago, and they were. [01:11:59] Speaker D: I don't, I don't know the financially. [01:12:01] Speaker A: If they're in trouble, but I know their subscriber base was basically cut in half or something from the pandemic, which. [01:12:07] Speaker D: Is, which is terrible. [01:12:08] Speaker A: And it's. I hope that it'll rebound. I thought it would rebound right when it came back, but I think that a lot of, a lot of patrons, like, people have told me that they used to go and it used to be like a habit for them, and then pandemic obviously broke that. So I don't know how we get people back in the seats. [01:12:29] Speaker D: I mean, I hope that we can do it, though. [01:12:32] Speaker B: It feels too like some theaters got a lot of money from the National Endowment of the arts, and then they put a lot of money into the facility and some salary sometimes. And then they started to do two and three and four person shows, and it was like, maybe we need to restructure that funding, too. It's tricky because they're always trying to figure out what their audiences want. And I know friends that run theaters who are like, we try to be like, avenue Q is risky, like they're trying to do outside the box, but audiences are like, I don't know what that show is. They get a little finicky, and so they're trying to push the boundaries and trying to show more diversity, but they're also appealing to an audience base that's. [01:13:13] Speaker C: Used to certain thing. [01:13:15] Speaker B: Right. Like, also, like, America, a lot of our tourists, America likes Big Macs and Coca Cola. So you have to, in a smart, interesting way, kind of impress upon audiences to like, other things, to try Brussels sprouts, you know? [01:13:36] Speaker C: Right. [01:13:37] Speaker A: I mean, yeah, obviously, every theater is. [01:13:40] Speaker D: Different, but, you know, sometimes they'll have. [01:13:43] Speaker A: Like, one experimental kind of play in a sea of, like, well known, you know, titles that people will love, you know, and some. And obviously, more like liberal cities, they're going to have more experimental stuff, and because people will support that more. [01:13:58] Speaker D: But it's kind of funny because it's. [01:14:01] Speaker A: So different for tv film, where it's like, experimental stuff happens all the time there. Like, crazy shows are happening in a great way. Like, it's amazing. I just wish they would support the live arts more. [01:14:12] Speaker B: Yeah, and that's a whole other ball of wax. When you ever talk about auditioning and things like that? If you're auditioning for network tv versus. [01:14:21] Speaker C: This is gonna be on Hulu or Netflix or something, where you can be. [01:14:25] Speaker B: A little outside the box and creative versus when you watch sitcoms, there's a, when you watch movies, sometimes there's a formula. [01:14:32] Speaker C: There's a formula that works like how. [01:14:34] Speaker B: A lot of musicals are, like, a first number has to. You have to do a whole song. [01:14:37] Speaker C: About where you are. Wisconsin. [01:14:40] Speaker B: Wisconsin. We're living in Wisconsin. You know, there's a certain thing. [01:14:44] Speaker A: What show is that? [01:14:45] Speaker D: It sounds amazing. [01:14:46] Speaker B: It's great. Every show, like, I've been in, every show I've done, I feel like most musicals are like, here's the reason. And you're like, you get it. You got to set the time in place. [01:14:54] Speaker C: But because the audience, there's like a. [01:14:57] Speaker B: Formula, and I think we can start to kind of play with that a little bit and be more creative and. But as an actor, you're trying to fit in. [01:15:06] Speaker C: Fit in, but also show that you're creative and unique. [01:15:10] Speaker B: But I can do what you want, but I can also be. [01:15:13] Speaker A: And it's like knowing what you're going in for. Obviously, if you're going in for network tv, like, versus film versus theater versus a play versus a musical, like, it's important to know what medium you're in, I guess. Do you have any advice on that? [01:15:29] Speaker B: Well, like I was saying, I think if you're going in for, like, a network show, look at the network shows and look how, look. If you look at between seven and 10:00 at night, there's a lot of firefighters and hospitals and cop shows, and, and I start to notice a pattern. [01:15:46] Speaker C: Like the men, there's a lot. [01:15:47] Speaker B: There's always two or three guys that talk like this on the show. There's like a hyper masculinity to some of it, and there's like, there's. There was a body type for. There still is for some shows, like, there. For women, it's like, interesting. I always thought it was funny how law and order, and I understand it now, how in law and order. A cop would come to someone's door and knock. And the person would answer the door. [01:16:11] Speaker C: Yes. [01:16:12] Speaker B: And the police officer's like, are you so and so? Yes, I'm busy. [01:16:16] Speaker C: What do you want? [01:16:17] Speaker B: Well, I need to ask you some questions about so and so. [01:16:20] Speaker C: Oh, Brad. [01:16:21] Speaker B: Well, he deserves whatever he gets. No, I'm busy now, and you need a warrant to come in. First of all, no one talks to cops like that. Usually. Usually a cop comes to your house like, oh, God, what? Yes, come in. Could you want coffee? Like. Or the cop has shown up at your place of work. But there's a formula. They have to make you believe any. [01:16:41] Speaker C: One of those people could be the villain, could have done it. [01:16:44] Speaker B: So when you find out at the end of this episode, it was the uncle. Oh. All these other people were innocent. They have to set it up a certain way for the narrative. So you have to know, reading the. [01:16:55] Speaker C: Script like, I can't behave, like I'm. [01:16:58] Speaker B: Not a suspicious person. [01:17:00] Speaker C: I have to give the yes. No, I'm not lying. I was there at 08:00 sorry, I. [01:17:07] Speaker B: Can'T help you anymore. There's, like, a way. [01:17:11] Speaker C: You know, my. [01:17:12] Speaker B: Best friend did it. Did it, one of these cop shows, and said there was a way to look at her partner to let the camera know she doesn't believe what they're saying. She was like, well, you said you were there at 06:00 and you were. [01:17:22] Speaker C: At your mother's house. [01:17:26] Speaker B: You look at your partner like, this is bullshit. [01:17:29] Speaker C: This is crap. [01:17:30] Speaker B: But there's something to it. Whereas I think if going in for a new Netflix show or hulu, you can be a little more unique and look at the people on those shows. Different, unique, interesting. It's hard because we often get sides. [01:17:45] Speaker C: And we're like, I don't know the tone of this. I don't know what we're doing. [01:17:49] Speaker B: I don't know the version of this show we're doing. It could be a show like west side Story. I was called back for the last. [01:17:57] Speaker C: West side story revival for glad hand. You know, the person that comes out. [01:18:03] Speaker B: Of the dance is like, all right. The boys in one circle, the girls another. And it was me, an older white gentleman. I say older because he probably read upper fifties, early sixties. He's going to hear this and be like, I'm 42. And then Pippa, pier three, who got it. [01:18:17] Speaker C: A woman who got the part. [01:18:19] Speaker B: But I felt it there. I was like, she's up for this role. [01:18:21] Speaker C: It's going to be her. Because why? [01:18:23] Speaker B: There are only mostly male principals. And you're not going to cast talk as a woman because it's a woman. This should be, this is probably going to be her. And she's wonderful. She's done a bunch of stuff, but in my head I'm like, this is what Evo van hove shows. So how, what kind of what? It's still set in the fifties, and so I dressed a certain way, but I'm like, I didn't do the gray and the blue and the black, but I was like, I don't know what concept. I don't know how. [01:18:50] Speaker D: Right. [01:18:52] Speaker C: So you're, you're always like, no, I'll. [01:18:54] Speaker B: Just do what I do and got the call back. [01:18:57] Speaker D: Right. [01:18:58] Speaker A: Or if it's a brand new show, that's net that you don't have any context for. Maybe you could, maybe, you know, the writers, like for a tv show or. [01:19:04] Speaker D: Something or series, it's. How do you figure that out? [01:19:08] Speaker A: You know, it's, you do the best you can, I guess, calibrating your performance and bringing what you can to it, I guess. [01:19:15] Speaker B: Because even if they direct you, you. [01:19:16] Speaker C: Could interpret that differently, too, and not, yeah, you know, but I've also seen. [01:19:21] Speaker B: Things that I didn't book and I've seen the person that booked it. [01:19:23] Speaker C: And I was like, that we're very different. I got worked up over that. You're, and you, they have every right. [01:19:31] Speaker B: To cast who they want. You're very different. I didn't know, and I can't be that person. And sometimes we've all benefited from the stars aligning, and it's our moment, and sometimes we're the catalyst for other people's moment. [01:19:48] Speaker C: And I'll say that, like, I've gotten. [01:19:49] Speaker B: Upset a couple times about things because I watched someone else reap the benefits of something that I wanted or thought would happen for me. And then I had to go. I had to check myself and be like, you set the ball up and volleyed for them and they played it. [01:20:07] Speaker C: And it's their moment, and you don't. [01:20:08] Speaker B: Know what else is going on in their life, and they have every right to live their dream and pursue their dreams. You can't have everything. And if you had some part in. [01:20:16] Speaker C: Having them get featured and get something. [01:20:19] Speaker B: Then that's wonderful as well. That'll come back around. I believe I'm very spiritual about this, too. So there are moments. [01:20:25] Speaker C: It's like you have to be happy. [01:20:27] Speaker B: For the people around you, too. [01:20:30] Speaker C: And also know that I've heard this. [01:20:32] Speaker B: Too, as people start booking around you, you're like, oh, I might be next. Like there's something happening in the universe. [01:20:39] Speaker C: You know, because it really is when. [01:20:42] Speaker B: You least suspect it. I'm telling you, the minute you're like, I quit. [01:20:46] Speaker C: Let me. [01:20:47] Speaker B: I'm gonna sell my apartment or I'm gonna buy. [01:20:50] Speaker C: Knock, knock, knock. Here comes the business. [01:20:52] Speaker B: Hi. Want to do a Broadway show for three years? Like, that happens. [01:20:56] Speaker C: Like, how many actors Uzo Aduba were. [01:20:58] Speaker B: Like, I was done. I was ready to go. Orange is a new black calling. [01:21:02] Speaker C: Like, it's just, it's almost in a way like you have to get your. [01:21:09] Speaker B: A good friend of mine, Lindsay, Brett Carruthers, who is a career coach, wrote, I loved her email she was sending and one of them talked about the difference between hope and faith. [01:21:19] Speaker C: When we hope for some, hope is wonderful. [01:21:20] Speaker B: When we hope for something, what we put between us and that thing is fear and doubt. I hope I as an actor, book this show. [01:21:30] Speaker C: But am I the right person? [01:21:31] Speaker B: Am I sure I'm going to get it? Will I get an audition? Will I have the audition? Callback is there, but I hope, oh, no. But they want someone. Oh, no, it's not going to be me. Oh, no, I'm going to get, oh, my voice. You know, whatever you put doubt between it, faith is just going. [01:21:45] Speaker C: I've aligned. [01:21:46] Speaker B: I know what I want. I've done the work. I don't need to remind God or the universe of what I want. I need to just allow it to happen. I know it's going to happen. And that was an eye opener for me. My friend Alix said that she goes, we focused on aligned with our careers for long enough. We can let it come from left field. We don't need to sit here and remind the universe. And I'm like, you are so right. And literally out of nowhere when you start to put your, and I've watched stuff manifest. I have spoken things into existence that were shocking to me because I was just like, I want that to happen and let it go. You put in the order from Amazon. It's going to come in. It may not be today. It may mess up and be lost. It'll come to you. Like Tyler Perry says, God's like a gps. [01:22:33] Speaker C: Put it in, take it. [01:22:35] Speaker B: Not going to tell you all the things in between. And so thinking that way was much more healthy for me to survive. Mental. [01:22:42] Speaker C: Just to be like, yo, I'm not going to be. [01:22:46] Speaker B: I shouldn't be worried about the email I'm going to get. It's going to be what aligns with what I want. And at this age, it should. Someone misinterprets me or still doesn't get me. [01:22:56] Speaker C: I've been called in for things where. [01:22:57] Speaker B: I was like, ooh, gosh, all these years, and that casting director still doesn't really. They don't know who I am, and. [01:23:04] Speaker C: It feels bad, but I'm like, we're. [01:23:06] Speaker B: In a place where we could go to coffee, and I'll tell you my entire. I'll tell you my ancestor. We're not supposed to ask, but I'm happy. [01:23:13] Speaker C: I love that conversation. [01:23:15] Speaker B: Or look me up online and get to know. You'll get a hint on some things. [01:23:20] Speaker C: Like connections, just like. [01:23:23] Speaker B: But I can't sit and get upset anymore. And we do. [01:23:26] Speaker C: We fall. [01:23:27] Speaker B: We fall off the bench, right? [01:23:29] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:23:29] Speaker C: We get upset where we're like, no. [01:23:31] Speaker B: Like, you've put out there what you. [01:23:32] Speaker C: Want, you've put out there. [01:23:34] Speaker B: It's. It's already. The universe is already conspiring. Don't fill it with doubt. And I need to take my own advice on that as well. Just know. [01:23:45] Speaker D: It'S a daily choice. [01:23:47] Speaker A: You know, it's a daily thing just to. [01:23:49] Speaker D: To choose to see that the universe. [01:23:51] Speaker A: Is conspiring for you. Like, things are happening for you. [01:23:55] Speaker D: And I've had. I've come to that, too, where it's putting it out there and trusting that. [01:24:05] Speaker A: The things that are happening are for your benefit. And if you are someone else's catalyst, that's true now, but next week, maybe someone else is your catalyst. [01:24:17] Speaker B: A friend just helped me the other day. [01:24:20] Speaker C: He was like, you want to teach. [01:24:21] Speaker B: This class on creating character? Do you have a lookbook? Do you have a deck? And I'm like, no. He made me one. And then my friend in Florida was like, I want you to teach at FIU. All of a sudden, like, things started to fall into place. And that's what you just said was, my friend Lindsay said. She goes, stop. Don't say, you know, try to say, why is this happening for me? Instead of, why is this happening to me? [01:24:39] Speaker C: You know? And I, sorry, I know we're a. [01:24:43] Speaker B: Little over, but I'll briefly share that. When I was applying for colleges, my SAT scores sucked. To this day, I mean, I shudder to even tell anyone. My score was, but I was in AP biology. I worked at a veterinary hospital. AP foreign language sucked, sucked, sucked. It denied me a bunch of universities. I got into a university in their performance group as a freshman, which is rare. They had to rescind the offer, and they said people were saying, if you had pushed the ethnic thing or played a sport, isn't that sweet? You could have gotten in again, sports versus arts. So I was horrendously depressed that I was rejected. I got back from a theme park one day, was rejected by three schools. So I was really upset. And then I went to George Mason University, and I was tortured. I was like, I didn't want to go here. I lived on campus. It wasn't the place I wanted to go. And then I graduated. I started working. Before I graduated, I was working as a professional actor in the local dinner theater circuit. I was doing industrial films. I was a featured extra on a couple film movies. [01:25:50] Speaker C: I was doing all these things that I could. [01:25:54] Speaker B: It took me a few years to look back and go, Ryan, you could not have done that at that other school, which was on a beautiful but isolated campus in the middle of nowhere. You couldn't have started working professionally. You couldn't have made these contacts. You would have been in the performing group. But to what end? You've studied languages. [01:26:13] Speaker C: You've become fluent in another language. [01:26:16] Speaker B: You've studied French and Arabic. And I was studied abroad, and I graduated in four years, and I ended up on the dean's list three times because I watched where there's a will, there's an a. I don't know if you remember that Michael Landon used to sell that program about how to study smarter, not study harder. And I looked back, and it took. [01:26:32] Speaker C: Me a few years to go, oh. [01:26:34] Speaker B: My God, I'm so glad. I was at GMU, which was in. [01:26:37] Speaker C: The DC area, around things I could. [01:26:41] Speaker B: Work and get into. I was not delayed. I would have had a delayed career. [01:26:46] Speaker C: And maybe not done what I've done. [01:26:49] Speaker B: And then during the pandemic, they chose. [01:26:52] Speaker C: Me as a honored alumni, and I. [01:26:56] Speaker B: Won an award, which is somewhere, that little thing up there. And I was like, what? Like, but what you've done with your career and worked in the nonprofit sector. [01:27:03] Speaker C: And I've worked with. [01:27:06] Speaker B: I volunteered teaching English to people seeking asylum, and I taught refugees in Brooklyn, and I've worked with only make believe and TDF with young playwrights and all these other things that I've done, because what we do heals and what we do fixes, and what we do solves problems. If we. It glorifies, and then it does all these wonderful other things. [01:27:23] Speaker C: And so I was like, oh, my God. What I thought I wanted was not what I wanted. [01:27:29] Speaker B: It wouldn't have helped me, but it focused on it. We want the job that's in front of us, because it's in front of us. [01:27:35] Speaker C: We don't see that. It's like, Ryan, shut up. You have a show coming behind that that you really wanted that's perfect for you. [01:27:45] Speaker B: You're taking things out of lack. You're thinking out of lack of. [01:27:49] Speaker C: Right. You know? [01:27:50] Speaker D: Right. [01:27:51] Speaker B: When I booked Shrek, I was sitting with a friend, and it was 02:00, and then I got a. I told her, well, I haven't heard. It's been two weeks, but I heard stuff over the first, from the first audition. But I was like, no, no. And then 20 minutes later, my agent. [01:28:03] Speaker C: Calls and is like, I had just. [01:28:05] Speaker B: Sent her, hey, it went well. And she goes, yep, they want you to cover donkey and be one of the pigs, and blah, blah, blah. And my friend Connie goes, 02:00. No, Broadway show. 230 Broadway show. I was like, isn't that funny? [01:28:19] Speaker D: That's how it works, you know, right around the corner. And. [01:28:24] Speaker A: That'S the exciting part, too. I mean, it's not all bad. [01:28:27] Speaker D: It's like, it's kind of what could. [01:28:29] Speaker A: Be next, you know? [01:28:30] Speaker D: It's the excitement of it that has to propel actors on, you know? [01:28:34] Speaker B: And while you're working. [01:28:36] Speaker C: While you're working. [01:28:37] Speaker B: Shrek lasted a year. [01:28:39] Speaker C: They're putting out a new tour. [01:28:40] Speaker B: I was just reading Janine and David's blurb about rewriting some things, and we were in the middle of the run. I think it was the winter. It was a horrible day. We were tired. It started to feel like a job. And we got a note on the call board that said a woman had come to the show with her son, who has. This is interesting, too. He had an autoimmune issue and had to wear a mask. This was 2009, and he was so embarrassed of having to wear a mask. [01:29:08] Speaker C: Like, little did he know, like, how. [01:29:10] Speaker B: Many years later everyone would be in a mask. And he was embarrassed. And the. The woman said, in the theater, during act one, he was crying because people were staring at his mask, and he can't take it off because of the germs. And then she said, in act two, you all sang this song called Freak Flag, where you said, what makes you different makes you strong. And that's what I've always said to him. And then he was proud to wear his mask, and he finished the show, and we couldn't stay after because of his condition or whatever, but we wanted you to know how much it meant to us. And we were standing at the call board crying because we'd done months and months and months of this show, and. [01:29:45] Speaker C: We were like, you know, you can't. [01:29:48] Speaker B: Always see the audience because there's a light line, right? There's the. There's an audience, and you see there's a fourth wall. And I was like, here is a kid who it meant so much to. Every night there's someone in the audience, it's going to mean something to. And you have no idea. And then the kid, we sent them swag, and the kid was wearing one of our swings. Justin made freak flag capes. It was more like a flag. There were flags. And this kid wore it as a cape, and now he's proud to wear his mask. They sent us a follow up because we sent them a letter. [01:30:19] Speaker C: And I was like, we're making a paycheck. I bought an apartment from Shrek, and. [01:30:26] Speaker B: Then here's some kid who got some. [01:30:28] Speaker C: Kind of healing from it. [01:30:31] Speaker B: I've done readings now with young people who have. Who. Shrek is the reason they're an actor. And they were like, oh, my God, Shrek. And I was like, yeah, it's one of the pigs. And they're like, this is why I'm an actor now. We're reading together. I'm like, we have no idea. The reach. We have a reach that we don't. [01:30:47] Speaker C: Always, that we take for granted because. [01:30:50] Speaker B: Of the feeling of what it's like to perform and that there are people. [01:30:53] Speaker C: Out there who were like, I needed you today. [01:30:57] Speaker D: Yeah. That's the power of what we do. And it's. [01:31:02] Speaker A: I think we need more reminders about that instead of just thinking about, where am I going to eat after the show or something? [01:31:07] Speaker B: Right? Yeah. Do I get this? The six wings or the ten chicken wings? [01:31:14] Speaker D: Yeah. [01:31:16] Speaker A: Yeah, I do. [01:31:17] Speaker D: Yeah. [01:31:18] Speaker B: I mean, that was huge. Like, a lot of. There are a lot of shows now. There was something I saw recently that was like, everyone's gonna play an instrument. I'm like, oh, I don't play enough of one. [01:31:27] Speaker A: You don't? What do you don't play? [01:31:28] Speaker D: Anything. [01:31:29] Speaker B: I used to play piano. I don't play well enough to. To do it in a show. [01:31:36] Speaker A: Depends on the show. [01:31:37] Speaker B: I mean, yeah, I know a little guitar. Like in getting the band back together, I was on electric guitar and I played all my chords and everything, but I wasn't mic'd, thank God, because I'm not amazing. I played saxophone in 6th grade, but I cacked in a. I didn't practice enough, and I cacked in a concert and they put me in the bath. [01:31:55] Speaker A: Well, now there's always time to practice. I'm always learning, trying to learn new instruments because it's a good, you know, it can broaden your horizons and what you do. [01:32:04] Speaker B: How many do you play? [01:32:08] Speaker D: I have. [01:32:09] Speaker A: I have quite a few right now. I have guitar. Yeah. Acoustic, electric, upright bass, electric bass, ukulele, mandolin. My first instrument was a viola, so I'm very string heavy. Like, basically, I've played. I'm not great at them, but viola was my first instrument. [01:32:27] Speaker D: I can get okay on violin, cello. [01:32:31] Speaker A: I've learned for some auditions, but I'm not great. And then upright bass I've done, but I'm doing it. I have an audition now, too, where. [01:32:37] Speaker D: I have to, like, pull out all. [01:32:39] Speaker A: The stops and try and learn. Try and learn these songs and do. [01:32:43] Speaker D: Some instruments, but they're going to do. [01:32:45] Speaker B: Oppenheimer, the musical, where they need people to look teutonic and play a bunch of instruments, and you're going to be. [01:32:53] Speaker A: Ahead of them, and the bomb will just be like a giant gong that. [01:32:57] Speaker B: Like, someone, like, hits some big artistic lighting effector. [01:33:04] Speaker A: Well, Ryan, thank you so much for coming on the show. [01:33:07] Speaker D: I really appreciate it. [01:33:08] Speaker B: Thanks for having me. [01:33:10] Speaker C: Yeah, awesome. I appreciate it. [01:33:13] Speaker A: Thanks, everyone, for listening. And, oh, if someone wants to check. [01:33:17] Speaker D: You out, where can they look you up? [01:33:19] Speaker B: I'm on Instagram. I love Instagram. It's mostly it's, like, comedy and art and all kinds of stuff. It's Runyon cal. R u n y o n c a l. [01:33:30] Speaker C: I have. [01:33:31] Speaker B: My website is super busy. I need to downsize it. It's like Ryan Dash duncan.com, and, yeah, I'm around. [01:33:40] Speaker D: Awesome. [01:33:40] Speaker B: I hope to see you in person. We should do coffee and just, like, catch up. Catch up and all that. [01:33:44] Speaker D: Yeah, we will. We will. Awesome.