Episode Transcript
James (00:17.14)
Welcome everyone to the actor Zilla podcast. I am so thrilled to have on Brian Curtis. Yeah, I know. I thought I have this, I bought this little like stupid sound machine just because I wanted to have a little fun, you know, like I want to have, it's what we all work for in this industry is applause, right? So.
Brian Kurtas (00:30.839)
Hahaha. Woo!
Brian Kurtas (00:40.014)
production value, man.
Brian Kurtas (00:44.855)
Yeah.
James (00:45.732)
Production values that we said
Brian Kurtas (00:47.839)
Yeah.
James (00:49.664)
Yeah, exactly. Well, I'm thrilled to have you on. Thank you so much. For everyone that, you know, needs to be familiar with Brian, he's the associate artistic director of the Walnut Street Theatre. But he also does so much else. He he works in casting, directing, programming, literary management, and we're going to get into all that. So I would actually love to hear your I'm interviewing.
so many multi hyphenates, everyone does so much and it's really impressive. But I'd love to hear your journey through kind of those different roles that you found yourself in.
Brian Kurtas (01:28.974)
Sure, well I'm a Pennsylvania boy so I was born and raised in Lancaster, Pennsylvania and that's why I went to Temple University. So part of my education journey, for lack of a better word, was going to Temple. That's kind of what brought me to Philly. So I graduated from Temple and at that point in my life I was a performer as well. So I had played Muddle the Tailor and Fiddler on the Roof more times than I can count and
non-union touring and worked at some of the Lorde theaters in Philadelphia, which is great because it's such a unique city in that you can actually earn a living here as an artist. But there came a point where I quite wasn't sure if it was right for me in terms of how much I was able to have control over my future. And Bernard Havard, who's the producing artistic director at The Walnut, who is
been there since the founding of the nonprofit company in 83, asked me if I was interested in sort of an artistic apprenticeship. For anybody who's not familiar with sort of these apprentices that happen a lot of the major regional theaters in our country, it's sort of a season-long, year-long apprenticeship program that's fully paid, and you kind of work in one focused area of a major regional theater for a season.
And initially I was like, oh, he's just looking to fill a spot. I don't really think that he wants me per se, but we talked a lot about kind of big picture stuff and putting together, you know, productions and kind of my taste in working with artists. And he sort of encouraged me and said, like, I think that you have a really strong eye for, you know, the bigger picture of how this all gets put together and not just what you've been doing here on our stage.
because I had performed and understudied in some shows there. So I was like, all right, you know, whatever, I'll like try for a year. And he was like, try for a year, see how you think it goes. And I worked under him and for the woman who was working in the artistic department and the literary manager at that time, which was like 2007. And I did it for a year and that's all I needed. I was like, yep, I wanna be a producer. I wanna sit on the other side of the table. I much would rather.
Brian Kurtas (03:49.238)
be a part of connecting artists and putting this all together than being in it. So it really sparked, that was the catalyst for kind of going into administration. Yeah, so after that apprenticeship I moved right to New York. I worked for Paradigm, a talent and literary agency to kind of learn about the business of all this stuff. I only did it for a year because I really hated working for a talent agency. I didn't want my...
income to be determined on the hustle of someone else. It was out of my control. But I learned so much about business, TV, film, contracts, that kind of stuff. After a year, I went to Live Nation and worked in large corporate events where they were looking for people that had theatrical experience, production experience to take creative staging concepts and communicate that to non-creative people. So I was working with them.
Walmart and T-Mobile and State Farm. And I call it corporate theater. We were doing massive shows with like Justin Timberlake and Don Henley and Mariah Carey, which was crazy to be able to do that in my late 20s. And then in 2012, Bernard Havard called me and was like, we'd like to have an in-house casting director here that can do both New York and Philadelphia. Do you wanna come back to Philly?
James (04:55.472)
I'm sorry.
Brian Kurtas (05:15.75)
Serendipitously, my husband, who was my boyfriend at the time, got a full ride to Villanova Law School the same week Bernard called me. So I was like, we have to move to Philadelphia. So came back to the WOMA, did about seven years. Then I went to Gretna Theater, which is a small equity summer stock out in Central PA. Ran that as the executive director for about four years. And then COVID happened. And then Bernard was like, do you want to be an associate artistic director and come back again? And I said, heck yeah. So.
Here I am and it's been definitely very unplanned and I've been so grateful for some of the crazy opportunities that have been presented to me. And I love working with artists and meeting people like you, James, and getting to bring you into the full on new work, like what we did with Elvis. And it's what gets me up in the morning.
James (06:04.46)
Yeah, wow. Thank you for sharing all that. That was, that's amazing. It's always fascinating to hear people who've gone through different roles and how they think about it. And I am really curious about, okay, so for the naive like me that might be listening, I'm kind of curious what an associate artistic director, like what are the roles and what are the things you think about on a daily basis?
Brian Kurtas (06:26.07)
Oh
Brian Kurtas (06:32.062)
It's so different every day because depending on where we are in the process of season planning or a specific production, you know, I serve whatever the needs of the institution are. So one morning I'm coming in and I'm reading a brand new script of an Agatha Christie novel that's been adapted to a stage play to see if it's even something that's appropriate for our audiences.
James (06:59.758)
Right.
Brian Kurtas (06:59.99)
And then the next day I get a phone call from, you know, we just had two people get Broadway shows and they're not able to do Beautiful, which is our next main stage show anymore. So I stop everything and I have to replace those artists. And I'm scheduling our open call for the next season. And I have to determine based on the new LORT negotiations with the non-pro and equity ratio, how big those cast sizes are and how many equity versus non-equity contracts I can use.
James (07:13.152)
rape
Brian Kurtas (07:26.926)
So every day, depending on what the walnut needs artistically, I'm like, all right, take care of that, take care of that, take care of that, take care of that.
James (07:35.701)
You're like the fixer. You fix everything that's going on, right? I'm kinda curious, is it like being the vice president of the theater? I mean, I know that's not appropriate, but.
Brian Kurtas (07:38.034)
Yeah, it's still...
Brian Kurtas (07:45.514)
Yeah, it's a good analogy because like the way Bernard has so smartly set up the walnut is it's like he has like his cabinet. And so we have a senior staff meeting every week where he sits in his chair and he gets an update on the status of the development and fundraising. He gets an update on the status of our marketing and advertising. He gets management in front of house and then artistic. So it sort of is like being a VP of a department at a large corporation.
And the wall is pretty big, so I can understand why not every theater might have the resources or the capabilities to recreate that, but it works here.
James (08:22.688)
Right, right. And yeah, just Brian mentioned it, but we obviously met last year. I had the profound privilege and pleasure to work there for Elvis, a musical revolution, which it might be under a different name now, I'm not sure. Heartbreak. There's a lot of. There's a lot of, yeah. The type of Elvis would say that. Right, right, so I think it's Heartbreak Hotel possibly, but.
Brian Kurtas (08:40.674)
Yeah, there's a lot of stuff going on with that title and Elvis is a state.
James (08:51.36)
you know, that's beyond my pay grade. But yeah, so Brian was I remember I think I called like when I first got the offer or something and you picked up and I was like, he seems too important to be answering this phone. I was like, I just because like.
I don't know, you don't usually have the direct phone line to like anyone that's that high up in a theater, I guess. And I've always found that you were very approachable and friendly. Yeah.
Brian Kurtas (09:24.558)
Thanks, that's been a huge kind of philosophy of mine and it's something I learned from Bernard here, is just fostering relationships with artists to such a high degree. A great example that you just mentioned is like, you're an actor being able to have access and a relationship with the folks who work in the organization. That's no different than if you had written a play, James, and we're one of the few regional theaters that.
we take unsolicited script submissions and we respond to every one. So you can write a play or a musical that you think is great for us, send it to us, and you'll actually get a response from somebody, a human, which is so rare. But yeah, the philosophy at The Walnut is we serve two groups of people. We serve our audience and we serve the artists, and we cannot do what we do without both. And yeah, I...
James (09:54.361)
Wow.
James (10:03.646)
Yeah.
Brian Kurtas (10:20.442)
I spend my time and I put value in the relationships that we have with our artists.
James (10:25.832)
What do you think are the right types? Like you mentioned, if you write a show and you want it to be the right type of show for Walnut Street, what does that look like, do you think? Is there a type of mission or an artistic statement that you guys stand by or just whatever is good work?
Brian Kurtas (10:36.046)
That's a great.
Brian Kurtas (10:40.738)
That's a great question. We do have a mission statement. It is pretty broad. I will say because of the size of our venue, we seat 1,100 and we operate with seven labor unions, which is one of the highest in the country aside from Broadway, aside from a production contract. So just to turn the lights on in this building, the operating costs are astronomical. Because of that, we've always led with a populist,
Programming so anything that has an appeal to a very wide broad based audience, you know shows that have commercial appeal Like your lame is like your elf like your Oscar Wilde play In order to sustain, you know Our long runs can be six to eight weeks long eight shows a week for multiple weeks in order to even You know just break even we really have to focus on a broad appealing product
Any time the wallet has diverted from that, it has put our finances in jeopardy.
James (11:45.74)
Wow, okay. I'm curious because there is another space in the theater, right? There's another performing space.
Brian Kurtas (11:52.406)
Yeah, yeah, we have a black box studio, which is on our third floor. We have not reopened that post COVID, but for those of you who are interested in the other kinds of work that we program here, the third floor is a black box theater. It's a really small studio. It's only like 80 seats. And that's the space where we focus on new work. That's where we'll develop new pieces. That's where we'll really focus our time and energy on finding things that we can get our hands dirty, quote unquote.
James (12:00.833)
Right.
Brian Kurtas (12:22.13)
So when we're reading scripts and we're deciding to develop something that's brand new, world premiere, you know, find a local playwright that's got a new voice or perspective on something, that's where we'll kind of focus our attention on the more exciting or envelope pushing artistic
James (12:40.504)
You said it will be open or is there a thought that it will reopen?
Brian Kurtas (12:44.97)
Yeah, so right now we've got kind of two avenues with which we can go. The first avenue is keep it closed and keep our eyes on this new theater that our plan is to open next door, which is a 400 seat theater. That kind of got paused by COVID. And the second would be to build back up the main stage so greatly to what it used to be that it can help cover the cost of the studio. Because 80 seats, that's financially so tough.
James (13:00.06)
Oh wow, okay.
James (13:12.076)
I'm sorry.
Brian Kurtas (13:14.422)
to produce anything in and pre-COVID, when the theater was so financially stable and strong, we were able to subsidize the cost of producing in the studio with the success of the main stage.
James (13:16.56)
That's right.
James (13:29.344)
Right, right. And just for anyone that is not aware, like I wasn't aware before I worked there, but the Walnut Street Theater is like so historic. I mean, there's an amazing history to the Walnut Street Theater. And I would love to just kind of riff and just get people up to speed on like that. It's that it's the oldest English language theater in the world. Is that like continue? Is that what I read or?
Brian Kurtas (13:55.984)
Yeah, it's sort of a long, we shorten it by just saying America's oldest theater, but it is the longest continuously operating theater in the English speaking world. So it's one.
James (14:01.377)
Yeah.
James (14:08.14)
I did happen to say that to a British man by the way and he was like, mmm, what about our theaters? I don't know, but maybe it wasn't continuous there? I don't know.
Brian Kurtas (14:12.738)
Oh
Brian Kurtas (14:18.254)
Yes, so the theater has been producing theater since 1808. And so that is around the time when many theaters in England were being created or developing, opening, closing or shuttering. But we've been here at the corner of 9th and Walnut since 1808, still producing theater, not like, oh, it turned into a post office or, oh, it then turned into a shopping mall. This has been building where theater happens.
James (14:24.505)
Right.
James (14:37.944)
Wow. Right.
James (14:45.074)
Oh, right.
Brian Kurtas (14:48.418)
for 215 years. And you're so right, man. Like when you walk through the Walnut, it's a living, breathing museum. You're on the same stage that Marlon Brando was on when they were working on Streetcar before it ever went to New York. And you know, there's brick walls on the side of the theater that are supported by steel beams from the 1800s when it was like an equestrian circus. It's crazy.
James (14:50.541)
Wow.
James (15:03.969)
Right.
James (15:14.544)
And yeah, it was amazing just to go to work every day. So I can't imagine working there full time. But I like to switch a little bit and talk about Curtis Creative. Is that, so can you tell me a bit about how that interplays with what your role, you know, the theater and is that, that's a separate venture, is that right?
Brian Kurtas (15:35.914)
Yes, totally separate. It's my freelancing business. As I have been doing this for so long, a lot of my friends, former colleagues, co-workers from other industries, the longer that I've been in this business, the more I'll get phone calls from, I went to school with a guy named Joe, and he now owns a video production company in northern New Jersey. And he'll be like, Brian, I need a photographer to do stills of food product. Or.
hey Brian, we're looking for models to do these watches for hands. And I continued to get phone calls from smaller production companies, video agencies, you know, photographers, independent filmmakers, some of the university students who are doing student films, always looking for artists. And so as that continued to happen more and more, I was like, I got to find a way to monetize this. If everyone's calling me because they're looking for artists.
James (16:31.032)
Right.
Brian Kurtas (16:34.646)
maybe that's how I make a living. And so it's now become its own business, which is really incredible. And yeah, so I pick up freelance projects on the side, a lot of non-union commercial work, especially here in Philly. We're so close to Delaware that there's a lot of corporations right across the river and they're looking for voiceovers, they're doing trade show videos, they're doing medical training and need standardized patients. So I've kind of...
James (16:37.497)
Right.
Brian Kurtas (17:04.446)
elbowed my way into people's minds to say, when you're looking for actors, when you're looking for singers, you need a girl who can kick really high, just call me.
James (17:13.552)
So yeah, it kind of expands on your casting. Is it mostly casting you would say? Because it says casting and production.
Brian Kurtas (17:20.226)
Yeah, I would say it's like 50% casting, 50% like production. So a lot of events, a lot of live events where they need script writing or consulting on a stage design for a trade show booth. So I'd say it's half events, half casting.
James (17:36.336)
That's awesome. So you mentioned that you were an actor as well before. So did you move to New York to pursue it or?
Brian Kurtas (17:50.386)
No, I was still in Philly at that time and the great part about Philly, I'm not just drinking the Kool-Aid and trying to plug it all the time, but if you live here, it's way more affordable than New York and you can just get a bus for like 25 bucks, go to New York for your appointments and then come back. It's a great place to live and earn a living and you can survive here and still audition. So I had not moved to New York to be an actor. I was still auditioning when I was here in Philly.
James (18:18.092)
What is your, if you had advice to give for people that are starting out in this industry, maybe they just graduated and they're moving to New York or Philly to pursue acting, what would your advice be?
Brian Kurtas (18:33.17)
I'm asked that question a lot, like what makes a good actor, what makes a good audition, and I always try and align myself with this phrase that a good actor or a good audition is an informed actor or an informed audition. I really do believe that the game is much different today than it was in 2007 when maybe you and I were graduating at the time. Even the way technology has...
forced its way into our industry, both in a good way and a bad way, if you're not informed on how to do things, how to self tape, who's in the room, where to find information, all the things that are easily and readily available to you now as an actor because of technology, if you're not taking advantage of that and teaching yourself how to be a video editor so you can edit your self tapes, you're already behind the ball. So you know, being
The most informed actor that you can be is not just your training of singing, dancing, acting, understanding what a Fresnel light is, understanding how to edit and use sound gear. So I am very grateful, you know, there's so many years ago that I was forced to take tech classes and know how to build a damn flat so that now as a producer I can sound like I know what I'm talking about when I talk to a set designer and lighting designer.
So a good actor is an informed actor.
James (20:02.716)
That's, I like that. That's what I say too. I mean, it's basically you need to be informed on all areas and not just the one area that you're in. And I'm curious because obviously, I mean, I assume you see a lot of auditions. Is there anything that you like particularly that stands out or does it depend on the project? Like obviously you do plays and musicals.
Brian Kurtas (20:29.046)
Yeah, I mean, it's, I serve the artists. So when I'm auditioning actors, I gotta serve the play. So if it's calling for a specific need or a skillset, then does this serve the play? What purpose does this serve is always what I'm asking. And there are plenty of times where an artist comes in front of us and they're just not the right fit for the show, which is totally out of their control. But there are so many times I can tell you where I hold onto somebody for.
six, nine months because I may have seen you audition when we were doing Holiday Inn because we were looking for a bass player and you wouldn't have known that I'm like, we have this thing called Elvis come down the pipeline and I'm using this as an example, just hypothetically. But you would have no knowledge of all of the other things that come into play in sort of this industry or when I get a phone call from the artistic director at Media Theater because someone bailed on Million Dollar Quartet and I'm like, great.
I have all these guys from Elvis that I didn't hire. Here you go, you know, so. Yeah, it's tricky.
James (21:30.325)
Right.
So the important thing is, the important thing for an actor then is, is what I say is like showing up. I mean you just have to show up and do your best work because like you said there's so much out of your control and that can be, you can see that as a negative or you can see it as a positive too because like you said all these guys that didn't get Elvis maybe you'll be, if you did a good job you know maybe you'll be recommended to another production like.
Brian Kurtas (21:58.794)
Yeah, and it's easy for me to say because I'm not the one who's having to start from zero. I imagine that's what it feels like every time. And so I have a tremendous amount of respect for the hustle that artists have. And it's so self-deprecating and self-conscious by nature that just being able to come in the room and say, here's what I have to offer for sale today must be incredibly challenging and exhausting. And I really respect those who can do it well.
James (22:21.913)
Right.
Brian Kurtas (22:27.694)
because auditioning is a totally separate skill set than acting. I know some really, really talented actors who just cannot come in the room and book a job. But then I know some really good auditioners who suck on stage. It's crazy.
James (22:40.272)
I'm out.
It's so funny. That's so true. I was talking with, I don't know if you know, RJ McGee. Oh, cool. Yeah. He was, he was my first guest on the show and he kind of mentioned that. Yeah. That's so funny because.
Brian Kurtas (22:48.106)
Yeah, I knew Margie for a long time.
Brian Kurtas (23:01.25)
I talk about it like weightlifting a lot where I'm like look you've got two biceps, you're training your craft so you can be good on stage and you've got to train your auditions at the same time and if you're only lifting with your right arm you're going to have this wimpy left bicep.
James (23:15.072)
Yeah, exactly. Like, they're part of the same body, but they're different muscles for sure. Like, and what RJ said was kind of interesting was that it was like, he said, well, look at auditioning as like a mini show, like basically a one person show, which, you know, kind of brings it more into the realm of performing, I would say. But in my mind, like,
Brian Kurtas (23:20.31)
Yeah. We different.
James (23:39.064)
And this is you should obviously you should be able to perform on a monologue anywhere like on the subway platform To anyone right you need to have it like so well known and in your body that that's like what you do but But I love I mean I love being on stage because there's lights and there's costumes and you have three weeks of rehearsal and like You've worked on the character for that long and it's like and it auditioning is so the opposite of that Like oh just here's this script now perform it instantly, you know
And yeah, I always found it kind of odd, but everyone says like there's no better process yet. So, you know, to get people into a show, so.
Brian Kurtas (24:18.83)
Yeah, it's tough. The whole auditioning world has completely changed, even since COVID with the insertion of self-taping, which is basically the new pre-screening now. And I really don't see that going away. Even if you, I would assume that this is echoed when you talk to anybody else who does what I do. If you ask Rachel Hoffman at Telsey or Tara Rubin, I think self-tapes are here to stay.
James (24:32.228)
Right.
James (24:46.012)
Do you think that's an advantage to an actor or a disadvantage? I mean, I guess it could be both.
Brian Kurtas (24:51.338)
Yeah, I guess it could be both. I mean, the film industry's been doing things on tape for much longer, same with commercials. It's so much more rare that you'll even get in the room with a producer or a director when you're auditioning for a film or commercial, because it's just, you're on tape in a room with an assistant and they'll send a link to a producer or a brand legal team person, especially for commercials, that that's kind of been a bit more commonplace and accepted as part of the game.
But with live theater now, yeah, it has opened the doors to a lot more people being considered for things. I can find somebody in North Dakota whose equity and fits the stats I'm looking for and kind of work with them on video now instead of just going to Chelsea Studios in New York and seeing who shows up that day. So it's certainly.
offered more opportunities for artists, but then the downside of that is it's taken away that live theater component that's so important. Like I'll never forget how good it felt coming out of COVID and having my first dance call again, where I was like, oh yeah, like this is the best way to find people and to foster a relationship between a choreographer and potential dancers. Like I can't do this on a 10 by 10 box that Equity's having me tape out in my studio apartment in Harlem.
Like, I gotta be in the room with these people, so you're right, it's both, it's both. But there's something about live theater that I'm like, I need to see you in a room. And every director I've talked to, even Jeff Calhoun, Tony nominated Jeff Calhoun when we were doing Elvis, where I was like, do you wanna see self tapes? There's a lot of guys in LA who might be great for this. He was like, no, I need to see these guys in the room. Like, I'm not gonna make a decision to stage this brand new world premiere musical, which might have a future based on some YouTube link.
James (26:40.098)
Right.
Brian Kurtas (26:48.47)
Get the guys in here.
James (26:50.541)
It's so fascinating too because when you make these self tapes as a predominantly theater artist, it's like do you calibrate your performance based on what you might do in the room? Do you calibrate it to more of a film performance? I mean there's a lot of questions that come up. What is your take on that?
Brian Kurtas (27:12.894)
I always tell people get the callback. Usually when someone's requesting a self-tape, that may not be the end of it. You know, of course there's exceptions for everything. I have booked plenty of people from tapes, especially backups and special circumstances, of course. But get the callback. You know, make the tape good enough that it'll be able to get you in the room. So I always say to people, you know, because it's...
James (27:36.302)
Right.
Brian Kurtas (27:39.102)
No different than going to an EPA or a general call like Stroll Hats or any TCs. Get the call back. That's where you can do the work.
James (27:44.3)
Right.
Exactly, especially, you know, because things are still done in the room eventually. And this is kind of I kind of see it as an extra step that's been added, not a step that's been taken away, like you just said, with pre-screening, basically. As far as like networking, like you said, you know, you can kind of see the chemistry between the choreographer and the dancers in the room. Is there is there a way that actors and artists can?
develop relationships. Like what is the best way to develop relationships in this industry that's not, you know, going too far?
Brian Kurtas (28:22.446)
That's a great question and it's so much easy to do in a smaller market like Philadelphia, Chicago.
When you're here in Philadelphia, for example, you can audition for the Associate Artistic Director, the Casting Director a number of times. They'll get to know your work and your personality, and they'll be able to both afford to and have the time to see you in other shows. You know, there's so many regional theaters in Philly that I can go see a show at the Arden, the Wilma, Media, PTC, the Walnut, and meet a lot of actors that way. And then when they come in the room, I can advocate better for their work because I've seen them.
outside of the audition room actually perform. That's not as capable in somewhere like New York City, where it's just a sheer numbers game. There's zillions of actors, there's a bazillion shows off Broadway, Broadway at festivals. There's a zillion casting directors. I can't say you have the same ability to foster relationships with other industry people in New York like you do in a smaller market like Philadelphia.
James (29:27.532)
Do people reach out to you, like postcards, email? I mean, is there a way that people keep in touch? Okay.
Brian Kurtas (29:34.678)
Yeah, people do that all the time, both hard mail, email. I mean, it's not going to get you a job, and it's also not going to not get you a job. But just be a human being. If you know the person, you can reach out. I say it's all dependent on the relationship. And so there is no one-size-fits-all blanket that you're going to say, well, Brian told me, or my teacher at Boko told me, as soon as you audition, send the postcard. It's not going to get you the job.
James (29:43.202)
Right.
James (29:58.948)
Ha!
James (30:03.14)
You're right. Right.
Brian Kurtas (30:04.31)
to not get you a job. So you know if you want to do that and if you're working with creatives, not just casting directors, through workshops and new work festivals, classes, social events, keep in touch with them like a human being does. You know it's a lot more transparent than you think.
James (30:22.708)
Right. You're a lot more transparent. Yeah. And like a human being, not just having an ulterior motive basically. Just reaching out. And you're in the same industry and you both, I assume you both love the theater too. And part of the reason I love having people on, and I thank you by the way for doing this, I really appreciate your time.
Brian Kurtas (30:49.12)
you've been asked.
James (30:50.592)
I love to get to know people on a more personal level because I think people are, you know, maybe we passed, you know, in passing, we got to know each other a little bit, but people are so interesting. And I find the best ways to get to know someone is just talking about sometimes even not the industry at all. You know, so I'm trying to figure out how to work that way into the podcast too. Like what are your other interests? You know, like are there, do you have any hobbies or like things outside the industry?
Brian Kurtas (31:07.192)
Yes.
Brian Kurtas (31:16.27)
That's a good question. Yeah, well, so I've always lived in the city. When I moved to Philly to go to Temple, I lived in Philadelphia for like 15 years. I lived in New York for a number of years. That's where I met my husband. We moved back to Philly. And when I was running Gretna Theater, it's out in the middle of like the woods basically. And I loved the space and it kind of motivated us to wanna get like a house in the suburbs.
And I was the first person to make fun of all those people who would like buy a house in New Jersey and like suburban, like, you know, Jersey girls or whatever. I was on that train where I was like, oh my God, like, yeah, whatever, like you live across the bridge. And now I'm one of them. I love it. I love looking at suburban New Jersey. I've got a house and a yard and I've taken up gardening. Yeah, that's the newest.
James (32:00.58)
Now I'm going to fuck, I love it.
James (32:07.224)
Hahaha.
Brian Kurtas (32:14.286)
Part of my life is like learning suburban life after being a city dweller for like 20 years of my life.
James (32:20.636)
Right, did you grow up in the city proper or did you grow up in a small and smaller town?
Brian Kurtas (32:25.674)
No, no, I grew up just outside of Lancaster and man, I'm township. So it's like two miles from the Fulton, if anybody's like a theater person on this podcast. The Fulton Theater is a gorgeous downtown Lancaster. A gem and. Oh, yeah, I am like a Hershey Kiss and a Philly soft pretzel, man. Like that is me. But other.
James (32:33.828)
Fulton Theater.
James (32:38.456)
So you are Pennsylvania through and through. You are.
James (32:47.746)
I had such a good time. Yeah, like it was such a good time to be there for that long and experience Philly. I fell in love with it for sure. And what kind of gardening do you do? Isn't there like different types of gardening?
Brian Kurtas (33:05.522)
Yeah, so we have raised beds, we have food that we grow, because I think it would be really cool to be sustainable. You know, we have a totally solar generated home, so all of our energy in our houses through solar power, which is pretty cool. We tried growing our own food, but there's a lot of wildlife, turkey, foxes and deer kind of eat everything up. So we're exploring the idea of caging in a little bit, but I'm learning about what's animal resistant and the...
James (33:30.817)
Right.
Brian Kurtas (33:34.45)
So we have a lot of geraniums and marigolds that the deer do not eat So that's like my latest new hobby besides traveling so my husband and I love to travel we don't have kids We've been married for 10 years So we go on a big trip every year and we also go on a trip alone every year So like I'll take a week by myself and go to Costa Rica and my husband will go to Amsterdam or whatever and so we'll vacation together and alone So let's travel Yeah
James (34:00.544)
Oh, I like that. That's cool. What is the top three places you've traveled that you would love to go back to?
Brian Kurtas (34:13.394)
I love Costa Rica, really love Amsterdam, and I have, I won't answer your question but I'll change it. Somewhere I have not been that I want to go to is Israel. So I'm Jewish and I've not yet been to Israel. I want to go to Jerusalem and Tel Aviv. Every time I get ready to go, something happens. So I think I just have to go because there will always be conflict in the Middle East.
but I never did Birthright or any of that. I'm too old for Birthright, so I can't go for free, but it's on the top of my list of places that I have to go before I die. Gotta go to Israel.
James (34:51.136)
I think you'll make it. I think you'll make it at some point. Maybe not now. I don't know.
Brian Kurtas (34:56.906)
Yeah, maybe not now.
James (35:02.884)
Do you see like, what is like the future of the walnut that you would see as far as like the future of, you can take that as like the productions that you see or like just the theater in general, where do you see it going?
Brian Kurtas (35:19.382)
Well, I'll answer that with two points. The first is not having to do with the actual theater in the facility itself. For those of you who don't know who are listening, The Walnut's a nonprofit, so we have a lot more programs than just the shows we're putting on stage. The educational programs at The Walnut are like one of the largest in the state of Pennsylvania where we're going into an enormous amount of schools with programming as far as
you know, a four-person, you know, bus and truck tour about bullying or nutrition or civil rights, all the way to going into, you know, Title I schools in the School District of Philadelphia that have no arts programming, no theater program at all, and doing like a three-year program with them where we build a theater program and send teachers where they don't have arts teachers into those schools. So I, I fantasize about how much more
we can kind of extend our roots into the community aside from producing entertainment. So when I think of the nonprofit as a total business, I really get excited. And it's one of the reasons why I went into nonprofit theater as opposed to commercial theater and being a Broadway producer, like Ken Davenport, for example. I am very passionate about the commitment that this theater has to the Philadelphia community at large. So what I see in terms of its future is that growing.
how much further can we go into Jersey, Delaware, Ohio, that kind of stuff, because since COVID, the need and the demand for arts education has like skyrocketed, and I wanna meet that demand.
James (36:58.792)
Ohio's a lost cause, so I don't know about that. I'm just kidding. No arts. No arts in Ohio.
Brian Kurtas (37:02.535)
No arts!
Brian Kurtas (37:07.258)
But in terms of like the theater, you know, before COVID happened, there really was, we were about to break ground on this new facility across the street. You know, we were fundraising up to it, shovels were about to happen, and then it just stopped. And so, you know, when I think about the future of the theater as a theater, I think about all the new kinds of programming that we can bring in with a different space. I think about how we can co-produce with other theaters, like how we've co-produced with the Fulton and Riverside and Vero Beach.
And I think about new partnerships where, you know, I'd like to partner with Universal Theatrics or Disney, and, you know, maybe there's a pre-Broadway tryout here at the Walnut Street Theater, like there used to be back in the 60s. I don't know, but the opportunity for new creative artistic programs is also why I came back.
James (37:59.012)
That's awesome. Because yeah, I mean, there's such a cache too with the Walnut Street. I've worked at a lot of regional theaters, but I've always heard amazing things about the Walnut Street Theater just being the... Oh man, my favorite part, honestly, the people. The cast, I guess I have you to thank for that too. The cast was so, well, everyone involved in that, of course, but it was...
Brian Kurtas (38:12.302)
What was your favorite part about working with you?
James (38:28.476)
We're still taught we still have a group chat going and this is like months later like we ended we closed in november And it's february and we still have our group chat going like we're I think we made some really good. I made some really good friends and uh That was definitely the best part and of course like getting to getting to work with jeff calhoun was amazing um He's an amazing eye and is a great director and just and just experiencing the walnut for the first time like
I would go back in a heartbeat because everyone talks about how good it was and it was beyond that.
Brian Kurtas (39:02.27)
Yeah, it's a cool place to work both as an administrator and an artist because everybody in this building is like top of their game. So like, Siobhan, the director of production, like the women who run the production department, first of all, it's run by a production department of all women, which is badass. They're so good. The costumes are so good and the resources that we can put into productions here are just like so top notch that it's like, yeah, you just love every...
James (39:10.148)
Right.
James (39:18.388)
Yeah.
James (39:28.205)
So
Brian Kurtas (39:31.006)
everyone who works here and everything about it because everyone wants to be here, they're all compensated well, they're treated well, and because of that nature that like kind of Bernard's fostered here for the last 40 years, the productions are gold because of that.
James (39:46.276)
production value and the production values are insane they're off the charts it's like it feels like a Broadway show I mean it felt like we were in a Broadway show just and not just and not just the production value but just the amount of support like I had some special things that I had because of my role in the production and it I was I was treated very well and it was it was a joy like everyone was just on the same page of wanting to do the best show possible and
arming people to be able to do that and having the resources to do that. So yeah, that was my, what is your favorite part of working there?
Brian Kurtas (40:24.462)
Like you, it's the people. I mean, it's really the people. It's rare to see, in this day and age, I'll say, it's rare to see people hold down positions for long periods of time. I think when we look to some of our parents and grandparents, people used to get a job and they would sit down at a company and stay for 30, 40 years. I feel like that's going away a lot in office culture because the idea of like, pensions and all that kind of stuff is...
not as strong as it was, you know, maybe 50 years ago, for example. But people will get a job at the Walnut and they'll hold on to it because it's great. It's one of the best jobs in the city of Philadelphia, maybe on the East Coast regionally, and you're treated well and the resources that you're given are incomparable. And it's just such a great place to be. And so when I come to work, you know, when I was deciding where I would want to go next in my career, I'm like...
the qualities of the show is so high. The skill level of my colleagues will be so high. You know, the opportunities to work with other people like Jeff Calhoun is high. I don't know where else I would be getting that, you know, in the States. So I will stay as long as they'll have me. So I love coming to work and seeing, you know, Siobhan and our stage managers and our production team and our education department, which is massive. The ticketing people are great.
we come to work and we see our friends, which is a really, really great thing to do, especially when you open up the time section, the art section, and even still, theaters are closing left and right, and it's a terrifying, unstable thing that has not yet completely gotten out of the woods. And so to be able to have an employer where my checks still cash.
James (41:56.238)
Yeah.
James (42:14.2)
Major theaters too, not just like small theaters, like major theaters. Yeah, COVID changed the game for everything. I'm curious, I'm gonna take a little left turn, but what are some of your favorite shows that you've seen or that you just have loved for a long time? Like it could be shows you've seen or that you've produced or I'm just curious.
Brian Kurtas (42:14.446)
It's incredible.
Brian Kurtas (42:39.918)
That's a great question.
Brian Kurtas (42:44.534)
That's a really good question. Favorite shows that I've ever seen. I try to think back on times where I sit in the audience and I said like, oh my God, or like, how did they do that? Which has been fun, but.
James (42:56.548)
I mean besides Elvis, of course, of course. Ha ha.
Brian Kurtas (42:58.706)
Yeah, besides Elvis, which was cool because I was like sitting in a room with a group of people that no one's done this show before. It's never been done. No one's ever played your role. So it was created for you with what your skills were. Experiences like that are so much fun. I think one of the most fun, the most fun I've had at work, I think was casting in the Heights at the Walnut, where we did maybe the first regional theater production.
James (43:05.59)
Yeah.
Brian Kurtas (43:27.25)
After it closed in New York, we got the first rights to it post-Broadway, and Lynn and Kiara came down, which was exciting, and they were tweeting the artists during opening night, but casting that show, I think, was one of the most fun times I've had, working in the theater. I don't know why, I think just the nature of the collaborative spirit that we put behind casting that show, where I was like, look, I'm not a member of this community. Yes, I lived in Washington Heights.
but I want to find with my team the most authentic representation we can. So we went into Rittenhouse Park and we're talking to break dancers and we're like, would you ever want to be in a musical? And you know, the finding authentic drummers that could handle the percussive needs of that show separate from the normal guys that we would hire from the musicians union here. So putting together that show was the most fun I've had at work, working in the theater.
James (44:08.119)
Hahaha
Brian Kurtas (44:24.95)
But I don't know, man. The best show I've seen. Yeah.
James (44:29.292)
Or just your favorite show. Like if you have a, because when I was growing up, I had, I think I had the company like soundtrack that I would play over and I was just mesmerized by the music and how like, when you have a lane stretch, when you have a lane stretch yelling at you, you know you're having a good day. That's, that's how I approach life.
Brian Kurtas (44:39.554)
with a lane strip yelling at you, screaming at your face. Ha ha ha.
Brian Kurtas (44:47.275)
Yes.
Brian Kurtas (44:50.986)
I don't know, it depends on my taste. Like sometimes I love just big honking musicals like a Ragtime or like Adam's Family or something like that. And other times I'll go, I remember seeing Bad Jews at Roundabout and I was like, oh my God, like that impacted me. I had such an emotional connection to the piece that it just, I don't know, I don't think I can pick one. But it's anything emotional connection to.
James (45:12.673)
No, yeah.
James (45:16.116)
Yeah, yeah, those shows, one of them for me is spam a lot because I had the pleasure to do that, like the national tour, a while ago. And I grew up like talking, or like, you know, loving Monty Python too. And I was able to like meet Eric Idle and stuff like that. And so I kind of relate when you're talking about Lin-Manuel and meeting kind of the people involved. And...
It just makes it so much more special. And it's, and that's, that's kind of what I love about theater too, is just, it's such a human to human level because it's like, um, actually, you know, you can meet the playwright sometimes, or maybe you're in the room with the playwright and it's not that other mediums don't do this too, but I just loved it, how collaborative of an art form it is and how
I don't know how to put it.
Brian Kurtas (46:09.718)
No, it's a human connection because I talk about this a lot because I have a lot of friends who don't work in the theater. And they're like, theater people are so close, and they're hugging and kissing. And I try to explain to them the nature of how we exist with each other. Where what other industry are you living with your coworkers sometimes, traveling with your coworkers? I'm like, you're becoming grained in each other's lives while we create theater.
That to me, that's why theater people quote unquote are like that. You know, it's I don't know if it's like that at a marketing agency or a law firm, but I'm like you're getting on an airplane, maybe flying to Sacramento and living in an apartment with other actors who you go to work with and then you eat dinner with and then you go home with and you ingrain each other in your lives. So it's a little bit more like intimate than just like.
James (47:03.993)
Right.
Brian Kurtas (47:08.942)
coffee table talk or like water cooler talk or I'm like, you know, it's, you are, what if you have a love interest in the show? Like you're pretending to be married for nine weeks? Like it's, you're ingrained in each other's lives.
James (47:23.36)
Yeah, and obviously the nature of what we do, like, you know, Jenna and Lucas, like, yeah, like, you know, it depends on the show. Like, yeah, you could be a couple of the show or you could be just. It's very intimate what we do. I mean, it's drama, you know, on the stage is it's very personal and it's and it kind of the I guess maybe the type of person that would go into what we do like.
is just more open to that, I guess. That's what I've found is that people are more open to experiences and they're more open to getting to know people. And that's what I love. We got really, our cast got really close. We went out basically every night and just because we enjoyed each other's company. And those are the best sort of contracts I've found. What is it like? You're always like that. Yeah, then that's true too.
Brian Kurtas (48:18.302)
not always like that.
James (48:22.989)
What is it like being, I mean, because you know the other side too, you know being an actor and you know the other side. I mean, what's your experience, I guess, being on either side of the table?
Brian Kurtas (48:38.894)
Uh, I found that having been a performer has helped me be a better artistic person. So I don't know if I would be as good as my job as I think I am, had I not been a performer. So an example of this is when we're, let's say we're doing a dance call with, you know, Richard Stafford for an American in Paris. If I didn't know how to do a...
James (48:40.612)
like
Brian Kurtas (49:07.758)
Glissade Assemblee Torsete. I think I would have a hard time finding him the people he needs for this production. Does that make sense? I think just having been in it and through it for a period of time, informed my ability to communicate concepts between collaborators and understand or be empathetic towards the dancer, but then also towards the director and facilitate.
James (49:16.016)
Hmm. Oh, totally. Yeah.
Brian Kurtas (49:37.154)
the relationship. I feel like a matchmaker or something, you know what I mean?
James (49:41.036)
Yeah, I mean, your whole, I mean, bringing artists together, right? That's what it says your mission is. I love that. Everything you do is about that. Where do you see your own self going? I mean, I know this sounds like a job interview now, but like five, 10 years, where do you see yourself?
Brian Kurtas (49:46.286)
That's my mantra, man. That's my mantra. Everything I do. Everything I do, man.
Brian Kurtas (50:05.703)
I'll stay at the Walnut as long as I can. I mean I believe in this place, I believe in its future, I hope there's a place for me in its future, and the things that this place has the potential to do get me up in the morning. And so any place that has that effect on me, I will go. You know, that's why I went to Gretna, because I was like, I can impact real change at a place like this. That's why I came back here, so I hope I'll still be here. And I hope I'll be creating...
the next show that has not been worked on before like Elvis, the opportunity to work on something brand new is really appetizing. So I hope I'll still be here and I hope I'll be creating something new.
James (50:49.669)
What is the breakdown of new shows to establish shows that you guys produce?
Brian Kurtas (50:54.702)
Well that's a good question. I don't really ever think that there's like a set ratio we follow, but I will say our programming on the main stage of The Walnut is sort of formulaic. So we do a season of five plays and musicals every year on the main stage and we always start, this is how we program our seasons, we start with The Holiday Show which is probably has the largest appeal, family-based audience, and is probably our largest revenue generator of the season.
So for this season, that was Beauty and the Beast for us. Once we lock down the holiday show, which I call the Keystone, Pennsylvania, we will build the season around that. So we have found success in the following template. We'll open with a lesser known musical, The Holiday Show, which is a family appeal. We find our large subscriber base will bring their grandkids and their families to that show.
James (51:32.461)
Yeah.
Brian Kurtas (51:54.814)
Then we always do a drama, a comedy, and then a summer blockbuster. So that's kind of the template that has worked here for the last four decades. And it's been what's been able to build, you know, one of the largest subscription-based theaters in this country.
James (52:11.912)
Isn't it the largest? I thought I read that somewhere.
Brian Kurtas (52:15.562)
Yes, you have read that somewhere. Since COVID, I don't even know what the state of some of these other theaters are. So, you know, I'm just not using that superlative because I'm like, for all I know, some theater in Chicago, but yeah, I mean, at one point, you know, in the 2012, 13, there was 50,000 subscribers, which is wild.
James (52:37.576)
as wild. That's amazing. I mean that's a huge success.
James (52:44.824)
That's amazing. Yeah, I would love to thank you for joining me on this podcast. I think I've learned so much and I could talk all day, but I don't know if you have to go or not.
Brian Kurtas (53:05.475)
I'll talk as long as you want me to. I ate lunch, I'm good. I could talk about theater all day.
James (53:08.3)
Alright, cool.
Yeah, I mean, you know, you just you do so many things. And I guess I'm curious about the literary side, too, because I think I remember one time I think it was in the green room and you were talking about all the plays that you were reading. What do you guys what do you guys look for in a play? I know you said like commercial appeal, obviously. Is there certain genres or subject matters you guys like?
Brian Kurtas (53:20.02)
Oh yeah, yeah.
Brian Kurtas (53:33.943)
Yeah.
Brian Kurtas (53:39.042)
We probably would shy away from anything that's like extremely divisive.
Brian Kurtas (53:47.422)
Yeah, but like now that I'm saying that, you know, we've done plays like Other Desert Cities and The Humans, which some people may not connect well with, but it's story-driven. It's quality stories that you have an emotional connection to. And a lot of times the plays that achieve commercial success that don't have a name in them, so what I mean by a name is like Tom Hanks in whatever, or Denzel Washington in Fences.
The humans was such a unique example of the play being the star. Same with bad Jews. The play was the star. And I find that a lot of times when you observe that, that it's a compelling story. It's got to be a compelling story. So even if we read a play about Alzheimer's or something that may not be happy go lucky, um, when there's an emotional connection to the piece.
and it's a strong story-driven quality, well-written play, that connects. There's a lot of bad, we get a lot of not good plays. I'm sorry to confess or admit, so I do a lot of bad stuff.
James (54:58.16)
I love that. What makes a not good play that you've read?
Brian Kurtas (55:05.558)
man
Brian Kurtas (55:10.698)
Lack of focus. What is this play about? Who, what are we trying to do here? What are you trying to get? Yeah, so when there's no focus or, you know.
James (55:12.844)
Really? Okay.
James (55:20.844)
Focus is in like having a protagonist or not having a clear structure or
Brian Kurtas (55:26.506)
Yeah, like the basics of what is this play about, you know? And the other thing that I guess I'll admit is unreasonable production expectations. For example, like, oh, hey, I wrote a play about 55 aliens landing on earth and there's a spaceship that has to fly out of the theater. And I'm like, all right, no.
James (55:49.068)
I mean, you didn't have to call out my play like that. I mean, it's okay. I understand now, I'm getting what you're saying, yeah.
Brian Kurtas (55:52.926)
Yeah, yeah, like that's why you got the rejection.
Brian Kurtas (56:00.112)
It's a...
James (56:00.844)
So you need 54 aliens, not 55. Exactly.
Brian Kurtas (56:03.978)
You know, 52 equity and then two non-equity.
But I'm interested, I remember thinking this after 9-11. There was like a post-9-11 playwriting adaption where you saw a lot of people writing very pro-American themes and the way that things were cast or the way that breakdowns were written about, talked about nationalities a little bit differently. Just like now post-COVID, you see a lot of playwrights adapting how their plays can have
doubling in the cast to reduce the cast size. A lot of maybe scenic elements in plays that are new or just being written are a lot more minimal or bare bones. So I think we're gonna see the effects of the pandemic on new plays like 10 years from now, I think, I think.
James (56:57.452)
Yeah, no, that makes sense. I mean, there's even the new Sunset Boulevard. I don't know if it's COVID related, but there's like a minimalist Sunset Boulevard coming, which is fascinating.
Brian Kurtas (57:07.694)
You are right. Yeah. And maybe there's an economic driving force behind the fact that the last two Broadway productions of Sunset Boulevard were not fully realized productions of Sunset Boulevard. You did not have this Norma Desmond lavish house. Even with Glenn Close, they spent their money on her and that gorgeous 20-piece orchestra. And it was structural. That was it. Minimal.
James (57:25.293)
Right.
James (57:33.744)
I think it's, I mean obviously artistic is all about the tastes, but I always, when I go see a show or when I'm, because I actually do write plays too, and it's all about, man I just lost my train of thought. What was I saying? Basically it's about the story. I mean it's about, it doesn't have, if you need a big set, well I have a friend who also says you can't go out whistling the set, you know? Like it could be.
It could be a beautiful set, but you need the basics of the show to be good. You need to have, if it's a musical, you need to have catchy songs and you need to have, you know, songs that move the plot forward and you need to have a story that's, that's worth telling. And that's interesting.
Brian Kurtas (58:18.038)
Yeah, that's a good point because when we get a musical sent here, Bernard will say, just listen to the music first. Don't even read the script or look at anything. Just pop in the CD or click the link and just listen to the music. Was it good? No? Then don't even consider that. You know what I mean? So we'll listen.
James (58:33.031)
I wish I wish some people on Broadway would listen would do that tactic to be honest
Brian Kurtas (58:39.478)
Well, the nice part about the regional theater versus like the commercial theater is we don't have to serve a group of investors here. You know what I mean? We're not.
James (58:48.484)
How does it work though? Because is there a board of directors? Is that a thing?
Brian Kurtas (58:52.29)
Yeah, but I mean, you know, the difference economically between like a 501c3 nonprofit theater versus a commercial enterprise is with the commercial theaters on Broadway, a group of wealthy investors put their money into a pot with the hopes that they'll make a return on their investment. So it's no different than Blackjack, you know what I mean? They're betting their money on the success of a show for the purpose of making money.
earning income and making a return on their investment. Regional theater or a nonprofit, a 501C3, any profit that is made is not going into the pockets of the employees, that revenue is put back into the organization. And so we don't really have to worry about satisfying shareholders or satisfying investors. We can stick by our mission statement and do what we believe is best for the community.
James (59:23.673)
Right.
James (59:49.7)
That's cool. That kind of goes into what you're saying about the educational arm that you guys have about. I guess.
James (01:00:01.913)
What kind of educational stuff do you guys do at the Walnut? Is the purpose to help them open up as people? Do they put on productions? I'm just curious about that.
Brian Kurtas (01:00:14.138)
It's pretty vast so like just to rattle off the programs, you know, the apprenticeship program is one of them every season There's like 30 apprentices here scene shop management marketing whatever you want Bernard built an entire theater school back in like 86 maybe 1986. So there's an entire theater school here where you can come and take night classes. You can take Saturday classes
James (01:00:21.102)
Right.
Brian Kurtas (01:00:41.282)
There's audition classes, there's dance classes, there's acting for film and TV. That's its whole school, which is awesome because then we can like grow the artists of tomorrow. And Elvis is a great example where post-COVID understudies is a whole other business in itself that we're like basically, we have like a actor farm here where we are growing and training actors from our summer camps, you know, we'll do Camp Walnut.
through their teens, where they're in our theater school, and then they go into the apprenticeship program, and then they're on our stage. So it's, so we have the apprenticeship, the theater school, the touring outreach shows that go into the schools. We have an adopt a school program where we're building a theater program at a school. We have residencies where if a school wants us to do an afterschool program for acting and dancing, we'll do that. It's wide, it's a wide spanning program.
James (01:01:37.848)
That's awesome. And that's, honestly, I wish I would have something like that grown up. It's really a value add to the community for sure. Especially with such a theater that does such, has such a high pedigree of work behind it and in front of it to do. What advice would you give to aspiring theater artists who want to pursue a career or that maybe they're acting and they might...
Brian Kurtas (01:01:46.935)
Yeah.
James (01:02:06.936)
they might feel like you as far as interested in other areas of the business as well.
Brian Kurtas (01:02:12.79)
Yeah, I would explore and take advantage of opportunities that exist at some of these regional theaters. I think there is a unpopular opinion. There is this conception that New York and Broadway is what defines a successful artist. I don't believe that. I don't subscribe to that philosophy. You can earn a living as an artist or a performing artist and never step foot on Broadway. There are actors who have...
lived in Chicago and Philadelphia their whole lives, and have been working actors, been scenic charges, who have been working in marketing departments. So this seduction, this intoxication, that if it's not in New York, it's nothing, I think is a very misleading and damaging philosophy to impose on young people, especially in academia. There's nothing wrong with graduating from Florida State or whatever,
interning or exploring different avenues at the Azalo or at Riverside or Malt Jupiter in Florida, like use the resources that you have smartly so that maybe when you do go to New York, you're competitive. I can't say with confidence that if I had just up and moved to New York that like Jay Binder was going to hire me to be the casting director in his office,
Brian Kurtas (01:03:42.654)
Um, you know, but I grew those skills, just not in New York. Um, and I used connections and I networked with people in New York and, you know, Duncan Stewart was incredibly helpful to me getting me in the CSA. So was Michael Casera. Shout out to those guys. And without their support, I don't know if the New York LA contingency would have adopted me into the CSA.
but those two men spoke on my body of work and my reputation enough to get me inducted. So I didn't have to work in New York, you know, at Pat McCorkle's office for decades and decades answering the phones because it just wasn't what I wanted to do. So I guess I chose the route of being a bigger fish in a smaller pond to like beef up my skills instead of just being like, I'm going to New York because if it's not New York, it's nothing.
James (01:04:37.712)
I think that's such a healthy way to look at it too, because there's only one New York and it's a small island, but there's a vast world out there that has so many skills that you can develop. And that's amazing that you found, I mean, Philly too is still a pretty big pond, I would say. I mean, it's not obviously the same as New York, but I think that's really good advice as far as just taking advantage of what's around you and not feeling like.
Not feeling that it's Broadway or nothing. I love that because there's so many thriving theater artists that have lifelong careers and make amazing work. And they do it all across the world, all across the country and not necessarily in one place where we're told that this is the end all be all. And honestly, I mean, some of the most creative work is not done in New York.
people don't, I think people don't understand that sometimes too, is that a lot of regional theaters develop the most creative, exciting work. It's, it's not a, yeah, exactly. It's like, because there's so many other, I almost liken it to, you know, going in and you're basically, it's a, there's so much other considerations in New York, right? There's like the mostly commercial considerations. And so if it doesn't work commercially, it might not.
Brian Kurtas (01:05:46.958)
Say it louder.
James (01:06:07.384)
survive or thrive, but just because it doesn't work commercially doesn't mean that it's not a worthwhile piece of work.
Brian Kurtas (01:06:14.382)
I mean, look at how many shows have failed on Broadway that were commercial successes across the country. So like Little Mermaid, I don't think was really considered a commercial success for Disney Theatricals on Broadway. And then it's probably the most successful regional theater musical in history in terms of like what it can generate in terms of revenue, both the tours and the regional theaters and the high schools and...
James (01:06:36.793)
Right.
Brian Kurtas (01:06:41.034)
You know, I know Glenn Kassel had a big influence on how to reimagine that show post-New York, but you're right. I mean, Little Mermaid's a perfect example of that. I get really, really proud about the American landscape of theater when I think about shows like Dear Evan Hansen, because that was not something that just opened on Broadway right away, because it's like Broadway or bus, like what Something Rotten did, you know.
And it wasn't a transfer from the chocolate factory in London, like Color Purple, for example, or whatever. And it didn't have Tom Hanks or Denzel Washington in it. It was a musical that workshopped and ran at Arena Theater in DC and transferred, and it had a true developmental phase of how a musical in America can be created. And so whether or not you like the show or you don't like the music or you didn't like him, it's a success story of
the musical, which is an American created thing, to see a show like that developed and built in our own country instead of saying like, oh, we saw that Back to the Future did really well in London, so now we'll move it here. We saw that Charlie and the Chocolate Factory well did well and Matilda move it here. Why aren't we doing more Dear Evan Hansen's where we're like growing our own stuff? It's, I see those as successes from the theater.
James (01:08:04.884)
Yeah, absolutely. Amazing. Well, Brian, thank you so much for joining me today on the podcast. Your experience and your perspective on things are so invaluable to hear, and it was really fun catching up.
Brian Kurtas (01:08:27.894)
Yeah, thank you for inviting me. I appreciate it.
James (01:08:30.157)
Yeah, of course.
